Power Play on Turn?

[Mikey]

alright here is a hand from the PINK GAME.

There are 3 limpers the cutoff raises I'm on the button and look down at the A /forums/images/icons/club.gif K /forums/images/icons/club.gif. I say to myself, "well it's been about an hour since you've played a hand, I think it's time to 3-bet.

I 3-bet, the SB cold calls, all the limpers call including the cutoff.

The flop comes T /forums/images/icons/club.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 3 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif .

The SB wastes no time and bets the hand for me. its gets called all the way around to me and I raise, everyone calls.

On the turn falls a 7 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif .

Everyone checks to me.

I bet the hand purely for value.
The SB calls.
and one of the limpers call.

River= BLANK as usual.

Checked to me, and I make one of those bets that's just asking everyone to fold, but I know damm well they won't listen and call because the pot is so big. I get called by the SB and the limper folds.

She shows QQ what a surprise.


Now the reason for this post is this, let's say that the SB lead out with her QQ, would it be wiser to call the flop bet for these reasons stated below....

1) if I hit my club, she'll bet my hand for me, in which case I can trap the players on the turn for even more bets.

2) if I turn an Ace or King I can put pressure on her with a turn bet or even allow one of the other players who may think their Ace is good to bet it for me.

3) even if a blank hits and she leads again I can make my raise on the turn putting even more pressure on her, since we are now on the expensive street.

After I went through this hand, i figured that raising the turn would have been the best play,

What do you think?

[JTG51]

Raising the flop in this situation should be so routine that you shouldn't even give it a second thought. I'd go as far as to say that not rasing would a disaster. You have 9 nut outs and probably 6 more outs with 5 opponents. You are basically printing money with every bet that goes into the pot.

I think all three of your reasons for not raising the flop are pretty poor.

1) if I hit my club, she'll bet my hand for me, in which case I can trap the players on the turn for even more bets.

Many, maybe even most, players would check the turn in her spot if a third club hit. Then you probably only collect one bet on each street.

2) if I turn an Ace or King I can put pressure on her with a turn bet or even allow one of the other players who may think their Ace is good to bet it for me.

You seem overly concerned with having someone else bet your hand for you. You should be less worried about tricking your opponents and more worried about getting money in the pot when you have the best of it.

3) even if a blank hits and she leads again I can make my raise on the turn putting even more pressure on her, since we are now on the expensive street.

There's no way that she's folding QQ if you wait and raise when a blank hits. When was the last time you saw an opponent fold an overpair for one bet on a non threatening board?

[Mike Gallo]

On the turn falls a 7 . I bet the hand purely for value. Everyone checks to me. I bet the hand purely for value.

After I went through this hand, i figured that raising the turn would have been the best play

How could you raise the turn, when nobody bet into you?

Good thing you were against such a weak player in the small blind. She could have check raised you on the turn or river.

You played the hand fine and missed your draw. You should feel grateful that your opponent didn't make you pay to hit your draw.

[bernie]

id be suprised if she bet the turn when the flush or overcards gets there. especially with all the callers. wishful thinking.

if an A or K hits, she may very well fold to a bet or at least a raise if you raise her. unless she has a club.

a blank hits she isnt folding with her overpair to a raise.

though i may still raise the turn with this many opponents in the pot.

b

[Joe Tall]

Why not take the free card on the turn? Or did she bet out on the turn per your last statement of your post?

I'd play the flop just the same. From what I hear of the 'Pink Game' I don't think anyone is going to fold to your river bet, even if they've got the slightest piece of the flop, correct? Then why make it?

[Ulysses]

I bet the hand purely for value.

By this do you mean because you'll get 5 callers and all you think all your outs are good? Or because you think AK is the best hand? I'd check the turn.

but I know damm well they won't listen and call because the pot is so big

Then don't waste a bet. Your hand has showdown value.

Now the reason for this post is this, let's say that the SB lead out with her QQ, would it be wiser to call the flop bet for these reasons stated below....

You have 6-way action with nut flush draw and two overcards. Who knows what the turn will bring or who will stick around? Raise the flop, hope SB 3-bets and everyone calls, then 4-bet.

1) if I hit my club, she'll bet my hand for me, in which case I can trap the players on the turn for even more bets.

So, your idea is, with 50 callers, she's definitely going to bet into a flush card and they'll call as well. Why? What do you put her on?

2) if I turn an Ace or King I can put pressure on her with a turn bet or even allow one of the other players who may think their Ace is good to bet it for me.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make here.

3) even if a blank hits and she leads again I can make my raise on the turn putting even more pressure on her, since we are now on the expensive street.

This is ridiculous. You're going to raise the turn when a blank hits and she's going to throw away an overpair for one bet? You'd probably bet the river again too, right? Doesn't make any sense. Again, what do you put her on?

[Mike Gallo]

Good cross post Ulysses

[Mikey]

"This is ridiculous. You're going to raise the turn when a blank hits and she's going to throw away an overpair for one bet? You'd probably bet the river again too, right? Doesn't make any sense. Again, what do you put her on?"

Yes I was going to raise the turn when a blank hits because I know she would have folded.

She told me so after the hand.

Also I put her on either JJ, or QQ.

That is why I figured if I made this power play on the turn instead of the flop I think I could have increased my chances of actually winning the hand.

I think given the situation again though I would have played the hand exactly the same way as I did minus the bet on the river.

[JTG51]

Yes I was going to raise the turn when a blank hits because I know she would have folded.

She told me so after the hand.

I don't believe her for one second.

[Ulysses]

I know she would have folded. She told me so after the hand.

Yeah, I believe her. You 3-bet pre-flop and raise a T637 board. There are 9BB in the pot pre-flop. 12BB if you just call the flop. Now she bets, one limper calls, you raise. That's 16BB. She's going to lay down for one more BB w/ QQ in that spot. You believe her? Come on. She can't put you on two pair or a straight due to your pre-flop 3-bet. So, she can that confidently put you on TT/KK/AA? I don't think so.

Also I put her on either JJ, or QQ.

So, your strategy is raise the turn on a relatively ragged board w/ no pair when you're confident your opponent has an overpair. That's not a power play. It's silly.