Pushing AA2X DS (X being a wheel card) pre-flop vs. maniacs

[Drizztdj]

Knowing most random hands are no more then a 60/40 favorite is it +EV to push a known maniac pre-flop with a premium hand?

Or is seeing a flop more advisable?

[lautzutao]

If you were a 51% favorite against a random hand it would theoretically be correct to "push" the edge against any kind of player.

Punish a bad player when you have the best of it...if I were heads up against a maniac hells yeah I'd raise AA2x, and go all-in if I could.

[Wintermute]

Hm. After reading this post I'm see your point about calling Felicia's theory Uncommon Sense.

[Drizztdj]

And I recognize "in the long run" it would be correct to trade pot size bets back and forth to get all-in.

But in a cash game generally you shouldn't be looking for coin flip situations. Is there an exception because this is a split game?

[lautzutao]

I don't understand how AA2x is coinflip against anything...

I'm new to Omaha and maybe I'm wrong, but when I have a premium holding in Texas hold'em against a maniac(especially if I can isolate him and get him heads up) I push back as hard as I can and make the maniac hang himself at every junction of the hand...preflop/flop/turn/river.

Of course, this isn't texas holdem and the edges preflop aren't as great so maybe I spoke incorrectly. Did I?

[Drizztdj]

I think I'm a still a little jaded from losing to K689 and KT27 last night /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I gotta stop that. Any advice on remaining aggressive after a couple of beats Wintermute?

[Drizztdj]

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1247070
pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 ad as 2d 5s - ks 6d 7c 8c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 5s Ad 2d 259596 295991 204009 0 213239 5834 65 0.658
Ks 8c 7c 6d 101461 204009 295991 0 48968 158995 65 0.342

65/35 this is on the extreme end

[Wintermute]

[ QUOTE ]
Any advice on remaining aggressive after a couple of beats Wintermute?

[/ QUOTE ]
The words "sew it up" come to mind.

[Drizztdj]

I keep a bucket of spackle next to my desk at all times. Cats tend to make big dents into walls when thrown.

[lautzutao]

[ QUOTE ]
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1247070
pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 ad as 2d 5s - ks 6d 7c 8c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 5s Ad 2d 259596 295991 204009 0 213239 5834 65 0.658
Ks 8c 7c 6d 101461 204009 295991 0 48968 158995 65 0.342

65/35 this is on the extreme end

[/ QUOTE ]

Some random hand comparisons against AA2x...

AA29 vs. Random Hand(worst AA2x hand I think...)

AA29-.6387
11333 High hands won
2269 Draws
22352 hands Lost
49718 Scooped Pots
15728 Low Hands won

AA29 with a suited A
AsA29- .6602
11639 High Hands won
2318 Draws
20774 Hands Lost
52406 Scooped pots
14310 Low Hands won

AA29 Double Suited
AA29ss-.6812
12011 High Hands Won
2232 Draws
19188 Losses
54954 Scoops
13097 Low Hands Won

It isn't as extreme as you think...

[Drizztdj]

The point I'm trying to express is you're never going to get that 80/20 or 90/10 pre-flop advantage like in HE.

Yes, I'm captain obvious, I'll be here all week.

[lautzutao]

[ QUOTE ]
The point I'm trying to express is you're never going to get that 80/20 or 90/10 pre-flop advantage like in HE.

Yes, I'm captain obvious, I'll be here all week.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't have to be a 80/20 or 90/10 favorite to raise, you just need positive expectation, especially heads up. And 65/35 is a pretty large edge in it's own right. 65 cents of every dollar villian puts into the pot before the flop is yours. And a "maniac" isn't a thinking player. He's not thinking preflop he's beat. He's "gambling" with you. Take his money, please.

[FeliciaLee]

Just keep plodding along. I lost five buy-in's in a row when pushing (or being pushed back) on FTP's PLO8 and PLO tables. Always the favorite. One time we had the same aces, but I had something like AA28ds and he had AA56, can't remember if he was suited at all. Of course the 556 came right on the flop, lol, no low materialized.

But regardless, after losing five full buy-in's straight in a row, I still cashed out of FTP ahead a month later (sorry, hate their site), playing almost exclusively PLO8 and PLO, with a little Razz thrown in to relax /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Look at the long run, not the streak of beats.

Felicia /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[DyessMan89]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1247070
pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 ad as 2d 5s - ks 6d 7c 8c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 5s Ad 2d 259596 295991 204009 0 213239 5834 65 0.658
Ks 8c 7c 6d 101461 204009 295991 0 48968 158995 65 0.342

65/35 this is on the extreme end

[/ QUOTE ]

Some random hand comparisons against AA2x...

AA29 vs. Random Hand(worst AA2x hand I think...)

AA29-.6387
11333 High hands won
2269 Draws
22352 hands Lost
49718 Scooped Pots
15728 Low Hands won

AA29 with a suited A
AsA29- .6602
11639 High Hands won
2318 Draws
20774 Hands Lost
52406 Scooped pots
14310 Low Hands won

AA29 Double Suited
AA29ss-.6812
12011 High Hands Won
2232 Draws
19188 Losses
54954 Scoops
13097 Low Hands Won

It isn't as extreme as you think...

[/ QUOTE ]

More like a 65/35 or 70/30 favorite. Good work Batman!

And yes, If you have the chance, push AA2, this isnt a small advantage were talking about here. You should be willing to take ANY edge pre-flop, but If your not a friend of variance, maybe more than a slight edge would be good. This is certainly better than slight edge. BTW, I love to be the one pushing this in, not calling it. Be the aggressor, and force your opponents to make the tough decision.