pillars of the earth (possible spoilers)

[lucas9000]

i just finished this book last night. it was pretty good, but i think it was too long. about 3/4ths of the way through i was getting frustrated by the constant barrage of stuff going wrong with the people...not because i wanted some happy go lucky story, but just because it got a little boring.

also it just kind of fizzled out at the end, and the character who was possibly the most interesting in the whole book (ellen) was given short shrift. i also thought the story about jack's father was a let-down...it was pretty easy to figure out, and by the time waleran gave his dramatic confession it was already fairly obvious.

however it was a great story, and the character development was pretty phenomenal (with the exception of ellen).

thoughts/opinions?

[ChipWrecked]

I read it a long time ago, but I had no complaints. Thought it was great. I tear through any Follett I get my hands on now. Read 'Eye of the Needle'.

[sexdrugsmoney]

[ QUOTE ]
i just finished this book last night.

thoughts/opinions?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, classic.

[lucas9000]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i just finished this book last night.

thoughts/opinions?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, classic.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't get it.

[StevieG]

Here's a definite spoiler, so I'm putting it in white.

<font color="white">Of course we knew much about Jack's father. Follett opened the book with his execution, and we had hints all along the way. But you guessed the reason he was so dangerous to these people, that he was witness to a planned coup d'etat? Seriously?</font>

Ellen may not have had character development because we already see her as the strong-willed, irreverant woman that she is throughout the entire book. But the revelations at the end give us insight into how she got that way. With that, her character gains a softening note of tragedy in her past, and we can look back at her relationship with Philip and see a much different side of it. That kind of "whoa, so that scene takes on a whole different meaning" is the ultimate in character development.

Yes, Follett does lay it on with the setbacks. However, part of what makes all of Follett's books so good is that the villains are cunning, powerful, and relentless. We believe his heroes are in real danger.

In "Pillars," that acute danger is somewhat replaced by blunt opposition, but that helps give the book epic scope. There are generations of people opposed to eachother thanks to the seminal events in the beginning. These are two fronts that grow in time opposed to eachother, precipitating in the book's climax.

It has to be that way. Philip is complicit in conspiracy in the beginning. It is the slow accumulation of injustice over time that lets him act as he does in the end.

[SL__72]

It was good. Probably the only 1000+ page book about building a church I will ever read, much less enjoy.

[lucas9000]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course we knew much about Jack's father. Follett opened the book with his execution, and we had hints all along the way. But you guessed the reason he was so dangerous to these people, that he was witness to a planned coup d'etat? Seriously?

[/ QUOTE ]

i got rid of the white because the subject has a spoiler warning.

i didn't know the minute details (like that it was some barons who planned the ship sinking), but i'd figured out what the deal was: the ship was intentionally sunk to get rid of the powerful and high-ranking people on board, jack's father survived, was captured, and then framed/killed because he could be the only one who would be able to reveal the plot.

[lucas9000]

[ QUOTE ]
Ellen may not have had character development because we already see her as the strong-willed, irreverant woman that she is throughout the entire book. But the revelations at the end give us insight into how she got that way. With that, her character gains a softening note of tragedy in her past, and we can look back at her relationship with Philip and see a much different side of it. That kind of "whoa, so that scene takes on a whole different meaning" is the ultimate in character development.

[/ QUOTE ]

i know this is kind of trivial, but we never get ANY explanation as to how she can curse people/marriages, other than some speculation that she's a witch. wtf? i guess we do get to see how she grew/changed by her coming to testify for phillip, but still i felt like the author kind of forgot about her in the end.

[Slow Play Ray]

I just bought this book for my trip to England. I needed something lengthy. I hope it's good.

[flatline]

Loved the book. It starts slow, just sticking with a single perspective for a while. Then, all of the sudden any person is fair game to have his/her own point of view told. The book pretty much rocks from then on.

BTW, if you like this, try Game of Thrones. Similar sturctures.

[Slow Play Ray]

[ QUOTE ]
Loved the book. It starts slow, just sticking with a single perspective for a while. Then, all of the sudden any person is fair game to have his/her own point of view told. The book pretty much rocks from then on.

BTW, if you like this, try Game of Thrones. Similar sturctures.

[/ QUOTE ]

VERY glad to hear that, because Game of Thrones, etc. is my favorite series ever - I'm dying for the new one!

[Slow Play Ray]

Well now I just finished this book last night. It was good, but it did not end cleanly at all. The author rushes through the last 100 pages or so to come to a conclusion that was significantly farther than he needed to go.

Other than the last 100 pages, it was an excellent read.

*Edit* I just re-read the OP, and I guess I'm just saying I agree 100% with everything he said.

Can anyone recommend other similar books? I was thinking about reading Rutherford's Sarum next, has anyone here read it?

[SL__72]

I generally like Ken Follett books quite a bit... Hes written a number of books similar to this one. A Dangerous Fortune is pretty good and A Place Called Freedom wasn't bad either. While they are similar to Pillars of the Earth (in that they follow the characters through their whole life), they weren't as good.

[cadillac1234]

I came to the same conclusion after reading it. After 900 long pages of story Follet has to wrap everything up in 100 pages and does it pretty poorly. I thought the characters got predictable and the villans were very stereotypical as well. A lot of people love this book and I did manage to finish it which is a rarity for me if a book is over 400 pages.

If you haven't read them 'I, Claudius' and 'Claudius, The God' is about as good as historical fiction gets. (Mentioned in the Rome History (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=3719227&amp;page=0&amp;view=colla psed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=7&amp;fpart=1#Post3724911) thread as well)

[Slow Play Ray]

this is the 1st ken follett book i have read. which one would you recommend i read next?

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]
I read it a long time ago, but I had no complaints. Thought it was great. I tear through any Follett I get my hands on now. Read 'Eye of the Needle'.

[/ QUOTE ]

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
this is the 1st ken follett book i have read. which one would you recommend i read next?

[/ QUOTE ]

Eye of the Needle was very good as I recall. Been awhile though.

[SL__72]

Most recently I read A Dangerous Fortune which I enjoyed quite a bit. It takes place in the late 1800s (1860-1890) and is mostly about a rich banking family in London. If you liked Pillars of the Earth this is the best one of the same type I've read... but I've only read 5-6 of his books.

[stabn]

[ QUOTE ]
I read it a long time ago, but I had no complaints. Thought it was great. I tear through any Follett I get my hands on now. Read 'Eye of the Needle'.

[/ QUOTE ]

This will stop when you get to his newer non-period works.

[stabn]

Besides some of Follets other books (I personally reccomend a key to rebecca), George R.R. Martin's A Song of Fire and Ice series is another good read that is similar pillars.

[Slow Play Ray]

[ QUOTE ]
Besides some of Follets other books (I personally reccomend a key to rebecca), George R.R. Martin's A Song of Fire and Ice series is another good read that is similar pillars.

[/ QUOTE ]

this one i already know - anxiously awaiting AFFC as we speak.

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
this is the 1st ken follett book i have read. which one would you recommend i read next?

[/ QUOTE ]

"A Dangerous Fortune" definitely has the same multigenerational scope, and some of the same epic qualities (allusions to large developments in politics and economics) as "Pillars of the Earth."

I really like his thrillers in general. "Eye of the Needle," "Key to Rebecca," and "The Man from St. Petersburg" are all very good.

I like some of the later stuff, too, like "Jackdaws," "Flight of the Hornet," "Countdown to Zero," and even "Lie Down With Lions."

Stabn, which ones have you found lacking and why?

[Slow Play Ray]

[ QUOTE ]
"A Dangerous Fortune" definitely has the same multigenerational scope, and some of the same epic qualities (allusions to large developments in politics and economics) as "Pillars of the Earth."

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I think I will check this one out next. After The Last Kingdom and AFFC, that is...man, I must have about 20 books in my queue right now.

[stabn]

The Hammer of Eden, Code TO Zero, and white out. White out is sitting on my floor with a bookmark about 70 pages into it and will probably never be finished. His most revent book that was a solid read is Hornet Flight (again, another period book). He really needs to stick to them as everything else he writes is crap.

Edit: I just checked amazon's avg customer reviews for his books and those 3 are by far the worst rated novels by Follett. I should probably also get hornet flight

[SL__72]

The Hammer of Eden was bad. I didn't mind Code to Zero as much, but I didn't like it a ton either...

Thinking about these other Follett books made me realize I'm not reading anything good right now... and since there are too many what book should I read threads right now anyway I thought I'd just ask here:

What should I read next? I gerenarly prefer longer, more "epic" stories. It can be classic literature, or modern.

[Slow Play Ray]

[ QUOTE ]
What should I read next? I gerenarly prefer longer, more "epic" stories. It can be classic literature, or modern.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you like epic and haven't read any of George R.R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" series that has already been mentioned in this thread a couple of times...get reading - you won't be disappointed.

Another recommendation I frequently make is Bernard Cornwell's The Winter King - Enemy of God - Excalibur trilogy. It is a very unique and engrossing take on the classic Arthurian legend, told completely from the viewpoint of one of Arthur's men. It is not fantastical at all - it is more of a historically feasible version of how the legend may have come about.

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]

What should I read next? I gerenarly prefer longer, more "epic" stories. It can be classic literature, or modern.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you read Cryptonomicon?

[Slow Play Ray]

So Neal Stephenson is good? I almost picked up a hardcover copy of Quicksilver for $6 at B+N simpley because it was cheap and sounded interesting. But after reading mixed reviews on Amazon, I decided against it and basically forgot all about it.

So I assume Cryptonomicon would be a better place to start?

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]

So I assume Cryptonomicon would be a better place to start?

[/ QUOTE ]

I find a some of the court intrigue in Quicksilver too dense. it picks up, but I found myself dragging through the first couple hundred pages.

Cryptonomicon was not like that for me at all. I took it with me on a business trip across the Atlantic. Huge mistake. While I should have been sleeping on the plane, I read instead. Could not put it down.

[Georgia Avenue]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So I assume Cryptonomicon would be a better place to start?

[/ QUOTE ]

I find a some of the court intrigue in Quicksilver too dense. it picks up, but I found myself dragging through the first couple hundred pages.

Cryptonomicon was not like that for me at all. I took it with me on a business trip across the Atlantic. Huge mistake. While I should have been sleeping on the plane, I read instead. Could not put it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you think he should start with Diamond Age?

Cryptonom=Really good
Quicksilver series=very good
Snow Crash=Rather good

Diamond Age= Incredible/Life-changing/Almost Gene Wolfe-ish