(22) Push ok push on bubble?

[golfcchs]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1920)
BB (t2870)
UTG (t1100)
Button (t2110)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font> Hero?

Do I push this? Icm say its +0.5%(I had bb only call with better hands) to push is this enough with sorty in bb next hand?

[splashpot]

I suppose a push isn't terrible, but you do have almost 10xBB. I think I would raise to 600 and fold to a push.

[Shilly]

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I suppose a push isn't terrible, but you do have almost 10xBB. I think I would raise to 600 and fold to a push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this. I think it's either all-in or call. And if BB has been reasonable I push most of the time here.

[Deuce2High]

Easy shove, in my opinion. Small stack is at 5.5BB so this really shouldn't affect your play in this situation at all.

[proell]

Shorty is not really short enough to affect your actions yet.
The answer depends entirely on your image and the read you have on the BB. So long as you have not been overly-aggressive in the last 5 or 6 hands, and if you have no read that tells you the BB is really loose then this is a pretty solid push.

The BB would have to be willing to make this call with a hand like QT in order for pushing to be wrong, which will almost never happen unless one of the above is true.

[splashpot]

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I suppose a push isn't terrible, but you do have almost 10xBB. I think I would raise to 600 and fold to a push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this. I think it's either all-in or call. And if BB has been reasonable I push most of the time here.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know why, but I don't like going into push/fold mode until I only have 7-8xBB. I'm probably wrong here though.

[Shilly]

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I suppose a push isn't terrible, but you do have almost 10xBB. I think I would raise to 600 and fold to a push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this. I think it's either all-in or call. And if BB has been reasonable I push most of the time here.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know why, but I don't like going into push/fold mode until I only have 7-8xBB. I'm probably wrong here though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you're saying, but raising to 600 here will put in you an awkward spot sometimes, especially against sharper opponents. He can come over the top with a wide range of hands here because if you call and lose, you bubble. Pushing makes him come up with a hand (which won't happen enough of the time for him), and leaves him no room to outplay you.

[golfcchs]

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The BB would have to be willing to make this call with a hand like QT in order for pushing to be wrong, which will almost never happen unless one of the above is true

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But if I put bb on a range that is only better hands then mine 22+ and AT+ (which is probably accurate since he called with 44) I only have +0.5% according to icm and this does not take into account that the short stack is in the bb next hand. Is this not one of the arguments against basing pushes only on icm?

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I suppose a push isn't terrible, but you do have almost 10xBB. I think I would raise to 600 and fold to a push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this. I think it's either all-in or call. And if BB has been reasonable I push most of the time here.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know why, but I don't like going into push/fold mode until I only have 7-8xBB. I'm probably wrong here though.

[/ QUOTE ]
its very wrong to go into push/fold more when you only have 7xBB,for example you push 2xBB or 3xBB leaving you with 4xBB or 5xBB and then you fold if some one pushes back????

[SonnyJay]

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its very wrong to go into push/fold more when you only have 7xBB,for example you push 2xBB or 3xBB leaving you with 4xBB or 5xBB and then you fold if some one pushes back????

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Push/fold mode means that you either push all in or fold preflop. It does not mean raise and fold to a push.

[raptor517]

pushing is fine, i have no problem with it. i also dont have a problem with taking a flop.. most of these people are god awful at seeing flops, and with around 9-12 bb, i dont mind seein one. holla

[jedinite]

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I suppose a push isn't terrible, but you do have almost 10xBB. I think I would raise to 600 and fold to a push.

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I agree - at the $22 with 10BB I think we're needlessly risking our stack here. Typical $22'ers in the blinds are going to fold to a 3x raise at this point, pushing the rest of our stack doesn't affect their calling range very much in my experience. If you do get a caller you can outplay them on the flop.

[playtitleist]

I don't mind this line, but am weak post flop. What's your play if called and flop comes Kxx (or Qxx) rainbow?

[raptor517]

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I suppose a push isn't terrible, but you do have almost 10xBB. I think I would raise to 600 and fold to a push.

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I agree - at the $22 with 10BB I think we're needlessly risking our stack here. Typical $22'ers in the blinds are going to fold to a 3x raise at this point, pushing the rest of our stack doesn't affect their calling range very much in my experience. If you do get a caller you can outplay them on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

for the record, i make a lot of chips off of pushing over ppl that make it 600 here when i have complete rags. if you make it 600, you sure as hell better be calling that shove. its a sin not to. holla

[zambonidrivr]

if this is the case, why not push it in to begin with to maximize FE? its not like your wanting a call here.

[jedinite]

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for the record, i make a lot of chips off of pushing over ppl that make it 600 here when i have complete rags.

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I agree, I love that play myself. I just don't see a lot of it at the $22 level.

[jedinite]

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if this is the case, why not push it in to begin with to maximize FE? its not like your wanting a call here.

[/ QUOTE ] Because shoving isn't going to dramatically change the hand ranges they call you with compared to 3x BB, in my opinion.

And because it can sometimes get agressive players to come back over you with very mediocre hands like any ace or any king.

[schwza]

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The BB would have to be willing to make this call with a hand like QT in order for pushing to be wrong, which will almost never happen unless one of the above is true

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But if I put bb on a range that is only better hands then mine 22+ and AT+ (which is probably accurate since he called with 44) I only have +0.5% according to icm and this does not take into account that the short stack is in the bb next hand. Is this not one of the arguments against basing pushes only on icm?

[/ QUOTE ]

if villain is dumb enough to call with 44, he's dumb enough to call with JT. given that read (in retrospect) i'd complete. with no read, i'd push.

[schwza]

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pushing is fine, i have no problem with it. i also dont have a problem with taking a flop.. most of these people are god awful at seeing flops, and with around 9-12 bb, i dont mind seein one. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

you mean just complete, right? i push over the SB with any 2 there. in fact i usually would even without the perfect chip set up for SB getting abused, which is what we have here.

on the other hand, i don't think a lot of people make that play, and losing T100 is not a big deal.

[TWINUNO]

I like the push here absent of reads. If you seen him call with weak aces before all in, i would be a lil less inclined to push just becuase of his looseness with other hands. I obviosuly would be glad to see him call me with a weak ace though. If he is an agressive big stack, i might even fold and wait till he abuses the short stack, the only problem if he doubles up then your close to being in bad shape.

[golfcchs]

So far I have seen people say everything from push, call, fold, and mini raise.

As I said earlier in the post my $ev is +0.5% if bb calls with 22+ and AT+. Is this enough $ev to make this push with the fact that the short stack is in the bb next hand? Also what calling ranges of the bb make this push a good one for me and a bad one?