Midpairs in lvl 4 w/ 13-20BB

[suited_ace]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t1445)
BB (t720)
Hero (t1740)
MP (t1430)
Button (t2665)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t300</font>, MP calls t300, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: (t750) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t500</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to t1130 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds.

I've been wondering if this is not a fold PF w/ 88-TT, maybe even JJ...

[ChuckNorris]

Edit: LOl I'm too tired to post. First I though it was 150/300, then 75/150, and it was 50/100. Preflop is just fine.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand the miniraise, I'd rather limp or fold than minraise.

[/ QUOTE ] He didn't minraise. He put in 3xBB. I like that opening bet.

[helpmeout]

You bet too much on the flop, he is either gonna push or fold against that bet so you gain nothing.

I'd bet 200 if he pushes im out.

[TheNoodleMan]

[ QUOTE ]
You bet too much on the flop, he is either gonna push or fold against that bet so you gain nothing.

I'd bet 200 if he pushes im out.

[/ QUOTE ]
and once again, the ENTIRE STT FORUM disagrees!

[suited_ace]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet 200 if he pushes im out.

[/ QUOTE ]

If Villain has 1/2 a brain, he's raising me 100% of the time after such a donk bet.

[helpmeout]

if he had a brain he wouldnt cold call preflop unless he was trapping

[helpmeout]

Why bet the 500 he is pot commited he is either gonna fold or push and if you arent gonna call you have wasted 1/3rd of your stack on a flop bet which isnt getting called.

Come on who is gonna call 500 with a worse hand when they have 1130 in chips left and the pot is 1250 when it gets to him?

[tjh]

I am limping or pushing here. Depends on the nature of my opponents. 99 is not a good enough hand to "play poker" with. You will be investing too many of your chips on too risky a situation if you raise 3BB or more and get called. You either want to see a flop cheaply and play for a set or push preflop and hope to steal the blinds.

I push if I expect that they will fold. Winning 150 chips out of position with 99 is good enough. I am in second place and with the blinds this high one or the other of the short stacks will bust out soon enough. Then we face true bubble play and the table will tighten up and I can accumulate chips there.

I will limp if I assume that I can see the flop for the price of limping. I will be playing for a set here. Most likely I will be out of position so If I miss my set or do not end up with overpair I get away from it. If the table is such that I think a minbet would allow me to see the flop for twoBB then I might go for that.

Against most tables I limp. Much shorter stack and I would favor pushing. Aggressive table and shorter stack I would be undecided. Much larger stack and I raise 3-4BB to see who wants to play.

--
tjh

[SuitedSixes]

No where in the rules of poker does it say you are compelled to lead out on the flop after a pre-flop raise.

Checking is the new raising.

[johnnybeef]

you bet too much on both streets, but i play the same way otherwise.

[helpmeout]

Checking the flop is too weak you cant just give freecards away like that. He might have called with something like KQ or AQ.

This is why I prefer a 1/4-1/3rd of the pot bet its enough for him to get away from. Also looks like a trapping bet from an overpair.

[suited_ace]

Yeah, nevermind the flop. I hate my flop bet, I should've checked and gone from there. My question was more PF.

[suited_ace]

How much do you bet PF?

[Fatdogs12]

Why bet anything? You have 17bbs. You don't need this hand right now. If you want to fish around for trips thats fine but what else are you trying to get out of this?

If you flop overcards are you gonna be willing to push? I doubt it, so why bother? Fold preflop or call for set value.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been wondering if this is not a fold PF w/ 88-TT, maybe even JJ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, I've heard you've been running bad, and maybe that's part of why you're saying these things, but if you're honestly saying stuff like this then this can't be your only significant leak. Not trying to be a dick at all, but we come here to help examine our games and you really need to not be thinking things like this. Folding JJ here? Pushing would be more +EV.

I think I understand you're frustrated, but folding here with any of those hands would be so ridiculous. They hold so much more than set value. Anyways, your pf raise is fine, maybe make it to like 275 or 250, but 300 is fine. Your flop bet is WAY too big. Bet 1/3 to 1/2 the pot. When you're dealing with such a large absolute value of chips and relative value in terms of chips in play, the relative value in relation to pot size becomes much less of a factor. Regardless, I don't know what limit this is, but I recall you playing small and your opponents don't have "half a brain" so don't worry about them reading you as weak. I play the 55's and 109's and I don't think these bets are ridiculous to make. Hell on that drawless board that's the bet I make with an actual hand. Folding to his allin just becomes a function of his play up to that point, but you should have a plan when you make that bet. Check raising all in is a viable plan too.

[suited_ace]

Yeah, I'm seeing *way* too many ghosts under my bed, but posts like this help me concentrate on the stuff I know I need to work on and not worry about this.

I've been checking up almost every aspect of my game in the last days. Sorry for the useless posts, but to me they're absolutely valuable - I'm affraid you're gonna see a few more this week.

As for the hand in question, the more I look at it, the more I like the idea of C/R all-in on the flop.

But let's say I check and he checks behind. What is your plan for the turn?

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
you bet too much on both streets, but i play the same way otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

agree. i make it 250, then 400 into the 750 pot.

[schwza]

if you fold JJ there (or even 88), i'll smack you.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
But let's say I check and he checks behind. What is your plan for the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, no worries man. I don't think any post is really too simple or too obvious to be made if it will help you out with a situation you're unsure of. The only reason I took such a definitive tone is because of how important it is you stop thinking like this. But hey, if you need people to say it for it to really hit home, keep posting these.

As for whether to check raise or bet, it really depends on the opponent. If he's been betting everything checked to him, I'd go for the check-raise, but if you can comfortably gain information from his flop action if you bet, then go ahead and do that. My default would probably be to bet against an unknown, but I check raise alot in this spot too.

If he checks the flop you should be betting any turn for 1/3-1/2 the pot. You probably had the best hand on the flop, therefore it's still very likely you still do. Bet out and go from there, but I'd be wary of a raise because it could be a slowplayed J.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You bet too much on the flop, he is either gonna push or fold against that bet so you gain nothing.

I'd bet 200 if he pushes im out.

[/ QUOTE ]
and once again, the ENTIRE STT FORUM disagrees!

[/ QUOTE ]

lord knows we don't want any new ideas around here.