non-NL tourney recources

[pfkaok]

So, i'm finally getting to be a pretty decent NLHE MTTer (i think), but i still feel lost in the mid/late stages of PLO, LHE, and O 8/b tourneys, even though i'm not horrible at those games, and feel OK at the early stages when its more like a cash game.

I have TPFAP, and that "Championship Tournament Poker" book, but CTP is so short on each game that i felt like i didn't get a whole lot from any of it.

so are there any really good books out there, or any "must-read" threads on any of those games?

[pfkaok]

OK... so i take this that there isn't much out there on this site about non NLHE tourneys? are they not profitable enough, or is there just not enough interest in them, or a little of both?

[ansky451]

I'm an PL omaha donk-- and omaha tournaments have been profitable for me anyway, simply because so much of the 10, 20, and 30 dollar plo tournament players, are just hold'em players trying something new, and havent realized that you should be check/folding top pair usually, and king high flush draws suck, bottom set is very foldable, etc.

Overall I'd say the worst players though, are in limit hold'em tournaments. Maybe not the worst, but their mistakes are so blatent throughout. I'm not much of a limit hold'em player, but these tournaments (although huge in variance) are very profitable.

I'm sure every form of a poker tournament is profitable (er, maybe not limit omaha hi, lol), there are just less resources on the less popular games. If you look, I'm sure you will find some insight into these games... somewhere on the internet.

Let me know what you find out, I'd be interested too.

[Exitonly]

if you posted some hands i'm sure we could get some discussion going...

i'd throw in my .02

[billyjex]

i love limit tourneys -- they are extremely soft. i play the $100's on Party and Stars alot. i don't know very many resources on them -- but the more I play the more I get the feel for tournament limit as opposed to cash games, but if you're good at cash games, you can probably crush the limit tournaments.

[Exitonly]

meh, i did alright at limit (like 2bb/100 @ 2-4/3-6) and i can't do squat in limit tournaments, i just feel lost and like i'm being outplayed all the time...just doesn't feel the same at allllllll

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
if you posted some hands i'm sure we could get some discussion going...

i'd throw in my .02

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, i'll probably jsut try a few then look for some hands where i felt unsure. i had been hoping to get some good advice going in ahead of time, but i'm sure i should be at least slightly +EV in most LHE tourneys as i've played more LHE ring hands in my life than any other game. its just that TPFAP is about the only source i can think of to get good, general tourney advice.

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
i just feel lost and like i'm being outplayed all the time...just doesn't feel the same at allllllll

[/ QUOTE ]

YES. i haven't played any LHE tourneys in a while, but i remember from before I felt an awful lot like this. just no abilitly to build a stack without catching some huge hands, so mostly just hoping that my cards came at the right time. i think i've gotten a lot better since then, but i'm worried the same feelings would come back.

As far as PLO and 8 i try not to get to invested preflop with alot of hands... Of course in o/8 i like a message raise with A2... I've found plaenty of sucess just calling preflop then seeing what develops on the flop...being an aggresive hold em player i was a lil suprised when i read lyle bermans omaha section in ss2 where he advocates this passive style... make no mistake though once you flop your hands put the screws in... it is one that has worked well for me...

[37offsuit]

Most of your standard tournament situations apply to any type of tournaments at different stages. The only thing that differs is hand selection which you can learn enough about from the Poker/game type forums.

Other than that, in limit tourneys it's less important to conserve chips early so you can chase a bit more with profitable draws, where those same draws can cripple you later when the blinds go up unless you're the aggressor. Unlike cash games, it's much more important to know whether to continue a semi-bluff because of the fixed bet size. If you semi bluff in position with a flush draw, for instance and the turn misses you but everyone checks, be more inclined to take your free card later in a tourney unless you have a single opponent who routinely takes one off. That's true for any type of limit tourney.

For PL Omaha and H/L things reverse a bit. If you're at an aggressive table early in the tournament, tighten up, but if things are typical, you can see a lot of flops early. You're looking for big draws to the nuts, whether it's wraps and flush draws, top sets, etc, or flush or nut straight/nut low draws in split games.

In PL games, you need to consider how to control the pot size. If you raise preflop with a drawing hand it gets much more likely that you'll face a bigger decision on the flop or turn. On the other hand, if you limp and nail a big draw, you can then manipulate the size of the pot depending on your position, the table's aggression or lack of it, and whether you want more or fewer players (in split games, it is usually better to push out other low drawes when you have a draw to the nuts both ways because if you make your low but not your high, you don't want to get quartered.)

I just realized I could go on for ever. Since there is much less written about these types of tournaments you have to learn by doing. Realize too that your opponents will tend to be weaker on average, BUT you're more likely to run into a shark or two who has you severely outclassed. On the site I play on, there are about 10 of us who always play this "off brand" tournaments and usually over half of us end up chatting it up at the final table.

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
In PL games, you need to consider how to control the pot size. If you raise preflop with a drawing hand it gets much more likely that you'll face a bigger decision on the flop or turn. On the other hand, if you limp and nail a big draw, you can then manipulate the size of the pot depending on your position, the table's aggression or lack of it, and whether you want more or fewer players (in split games, it is usually better to push out other low drawes when you have a draw to the nuts both ways because if you make your low but not your high, you don't want to get quartered.)

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so are you saying that mostly in mid stages when the blinds are decent sized but not huge it becomes better to take more flops in position in a game like PLO... rather than say attacking blinds and hoping to either pick them up right out or make a continuation bet a decent % of the time if you got HU? i think my main problem in PLO tourneys (although i've only plaeyd a few) is determining what fold equity you have, so a have trouble telling whether a bluff/semibluff is profitable after the flop in HU or 3way.