John Walker : Taliban

I recent pol revealed that a great majority of Americans think that John Walker should be shot for treason.


Do you think that Americans are a little hard on the kid?


It seems that when he became a Muslim and joined the Taliban they were not our enemies but when the war started , how easy would it have been for him to just walk out of Afghanistan alive and betray his Talibuddies?


I certainly hate a child rapist more than John Walker.

You have a point. Then again, certain individuals on this forum financially contribute to radical Islamic groups. I believe that they are as guilty of murder as John Walker. They should have all of their finances audited by the IRS. If any illegal funds are traced, such as internet "winnings", then all their assets should be seized, and they should prosecuted under the PATRIOT act. They know who they are.

The Patriot act? What an oxymoron that is. Any act that stifles our civil rights doesn't qualify as patriotism, it's nationalism. Ignorant mongoloid troglydites such as yourself should stick to listening to Limbaugh. He talks slow enough for you, right? Your post does nothing but prove that you have a below average I.Q. Don't talk to me about patriotism. You obviously have no idea what it truly is. John Walker deserves a fair and open trial, as do any others that are accused in this country. It's about the constitution, jackass. Your beloved patriot act takes the constitution and uses it for toilet paper. Pull your red, white, and blue blinders tight. That's what Bush and his minions are hoping for. You make me sick, Honest John.

how easy would it have been for him to just walk out of Afghanistan alive and betray his Talibuddies?


Impossible. That's not the way wars work. You don't get to walk away or change the channel whe you don't like it. Frankly, I don't see what all the excitement is about. He was just a stupid kid who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. They should let him go home.


On a different note, are Tallibuddies anything like Beanie Babies? Are they the next big thing? Should I stock up now?

I agree. I understand he fought for the Taliban, not al-Qa'ida. If it wasn't illegal to fight for the Taliban before 9/11, how could it have been illegal to have been in the Taliban once the bombs started falling? Doesn't his surrender make any difference?

There's no question that it's a strange case, and he certainly deserves to be punished. However, while fighting for the Taliban when they are not yet our enemy is one thing, but he apparently did participate in the prison riot where an Amwerican was killed. In my mind, that does tip his proper punishment towards the severe and away from the lenient.

Participate? I haven't seen any reports that states he was involved in the uprising in any active way, more like caught up in it. It's pretty severe to hold him accountable for his compatriots hiding and then using hand grenades.


However, there's no argument from here that his punishment should be stiff. First, he reportedly met with Osama Bin Laden in a friendly atmosphere. Rather, he was thanked by Osama for his participation in the jihad. Osama has not been an unknown quantity for quite some time (Declaration of War Against the Americans, Osama Bin Laden, 1996). There is little doubt that John Walker knew what Osama meant by jihad, i.e. who the enemies are. The meeting with Osama came about as a result of his training in Al-Quaeda camps. Again, while this may have been done underground just about anyone in the world interested in that region and its politics knew what the score was. Furthermore, while training in the camps he knew that there were suicide bombers with missions in the U.S.A. There was plenty of time for him to leave if he had serious problems being in the comapny of people who were actively plotting to kill his fellow (former? - at least in his mind) countrymen.


I wouldn't have him shot but his offenses are very serious. On a personal level while I am generally pretty sympathetic to the confused, especially those holding romantic notions, I find it hard to be so with John Walker. His support for the narrow minded, reactionary policies of the Taliban and thus Mullah Omar is apalling, even more so considering that he was in country and had a first person perspective on the suffering and oppression in Afghanistan.

Let Walker go home??? He's still committed to holy war against the USA! He thinks it is a just cause and would be happy to participate further in acts of terrorism against Americans. He thinks 9/11 was a good thing. I'm not saying the USA should necessarily hang this kid high, but he's still dangerous and unswerving in his convictions and he is obviously willing to follow through with action. I don't think we can just send him home and tell him to be a good boy from now on. He did fight against the USA, didn't he? Well he believes that is right and would do it again...jeez...just send him home? Why, so he can help al Qaeda blow up a bridge?

What is the Patriot Act?

I told you that Chris Alger supports radical Islamic terrorists. He believes that American citizens are the terorists, and that Al Queda, the Taliban, Hamas, and the Palestinian Authority are freedom fighters.

I think he should lose his citizenship and not be allowed back into the United States.


Serving in a foreign army (other than Israel's) is one of the few things you can lose your citizenship for.


Given the history of the charge of treason in the U.S. I hardly think Walker qualifies.


BTW, if Walker was a black muslim from a poor family what would his punishment be? Or if it had been someone connected to the Nation of Islam (though in that case the Taliban probably would have shot him for being a heretic)?


Paul Talbot

I would like to see the poor bastard given a lot of leniency. Is John really more of a threat to us than a common thug who holds up a liquor store

- and gets 6 mths because it's a first offense?


BTW: I thought the father's televised comments were absurd.

What concerns me most about John Walker is that he has not only shown that he is capable of violence vs. Americans, but he also has publicly stated that he believes the Taliban cause is correct--I believe he supports jihad against America, too.


While I too have some sympathy for misguided youth, this guy is not only non-repentant and firmly fixed in his views, he is damn dangerous and should be treated as such.


To anyone who thinks he should merely be sent home and placed on probation and six months of community service--would you rent an apartment to this guy?


Having some sympathy for misguided youth is one thing. Rest assured, however, that this misguided youth John Walker has no sympathy for you.

Bush signed the patriot act into law on 10-31-01, reacting to September 11. This gives new powers to law enforcement and intelligence agencies, and eliminates many of the checks and balances that previously allowed courts to make sure these powers were not abused. The checks and balances that were removed had been put in place after the revelation that the FBI and foreign intelligence agencies had spied on over 10,000 U.S. citizens. With those protections removed, the government can basically spy on us when, where and how they want to. A few examples are that they can simply claim to a judge that spying could lead to information that is relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation. The person that is targeted need not be a subject of the investigation. They can serve a single wiretap on any person or entity nationwide--and they don't even have to be named in the investigation. The site I looked at was 15 pages long, so i could go on and on, but I think you get it. Look under USAPA for more details.

Common thugs such as you describe might at worst shoot someone in a robbery. Those who support jihad and terrorism against the US might do a lot worse than that, and take many more lives in the process--this kid believes his cause was right--he is totally non-repentant--and has demonstrated an eagerness to use deadly force against Americans. Why then might he pose more of a threat to the American public than a common thug? I dunno, good one there...you've got me stumped...

"He's still committed to holy war against the USA! He thinks it is a just cause and would be happy to participate further in acts of terrorism against Americans. He thinks 9/11 was a good thing."


I haven't heard any of this. You're not making it up, are you? In any event, you can't imprison Walker for what "he thinks."

Walker stated he felt the Taliban cause was just--of this I am 100% positive-- and unless I am mistaken he also expressed support for jihad/holy war and felt that 9/11 was justified.


I'm not suggesting imprisoning him for his thoughts. But if he has commited crimes and has shown himself to be violent and unrepentant, and committed to the Taliban/al Qaeda views of what should be done to the USA, he represents a very real risk. When sentencing violent criminals, judges often do take into account whether the defendant has demonstrated, or at least professed, a change of heart.

Oh that's ok M. Sarcasm is a good tool. Of course Walker's actions demonstrate a for being involved in activity that can result in more American deaths than the liquor store thug. But do you think the thug really cares any more than John about your life or mine? And I have a gut feeling I would feel safer on a camping trip with the likes of John than some inner city kid with a drug problem and a gun in his pants.

I agree you would probably be safer on a camping trip with John than with some armed robber or druggie. That's not what I'm afraid of, though. It is the danger of Walker potentially helping commit some act of terrorism against many in the US that worries me.

John Walker should be shot in the head as an example, and your weak attempts at an intellectual assault after a trip to dictionary.com don't help your image. Political opinions are neither a matter of wit nor general mental aptitude. They are opinions, like assholes, that everybody has.


The great thing about America is that both of you are entitled to your opinions.


My opinion? It doesn't really matter anyhow. However, the civil liberties we enjoy as being part of America will be the reason for its eventual downfall. The world is a nasty place, with a lot of nasty people in it. I offer 90 percent of the American public as evidence, as at most 1 of every 10 is a decent person. Without swifter judgement at some junctures (bypassing the legal system) the country will fall. Throwing religious zealots into the mix is another problem. We couldn't have handled Christians a thousand years ago when they were going through their idiot phase - the US would have fallen then, too, had it been around.


I offer no answer, but when the US falls, this will be the reason. Is it worth saving? Probably not. Nobody appreciates it anymore anyhow.

I recognized the drivel of "put them all in jail" as that of a lurker who likes to waste space on the internet poker forum. He used to call himself Honest John. Now he just uses whatever name will fit his post the best. Blind allegiance to Old Glory and The President of the United States seems really weak to me. MLK said "An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind." We're in desperate need of another person like him. The bummer is that if that person steps forward, questions the government and rallies the people, an ignorant redneck like Honest John will put a bullet in his head. You want to see John Walker shot down like a dog in public? You're part of the problem.

John Walker should be shot in the head as an example, and your weak attempts at an intellectual assault after a trip to dictionary.com don't help your image. Political opinions are neither a matter of wit nor general mental aptitude. They are opinions, like assholes, that everybody has.


The great thing about America is that both of you are entitled to your opinions.


My opinion? It doesn't really matter anyhow. However, the civil liberties we enjoy as being part of America will be the reason for its eventual downfall. The world is a nasty place, with a lot of nasty people in it. I offer 90 percent of the American public as evidence, as at most 1 of every 10 is a decent person. Without swifter judgement at some junctures (bypassing the legal system) the country will fall. Throwing religious zealots into the mix is another problem. We couldn't have handled Christians a thousand years ago when they were going through their idiot phase - the US would have fallen then, too, had it been around.


I offer no answer, but when the US falls, this will be the reason. Is it worth saving? Probably not. Nobody appreciates it anymore anyhow.

Rethinking my last post, I'm sad to admit I have to agree with you with regard to the public execution. Had he died in the raids, I think it would have been better for the world, but right now half of America would be enraged by a hanging, as it were.


See what we're doing right now? We're basically respecting each other's opinions as things to consider and respond to, more or less. That's not quite how it is with regard to Johnny Walker and company. They are irrational, and therefore cannot be reasoned with. The fact that they have been trying to instigate something with what is currently the most powerful military force in the world is evidence enough to their irrationality (as you can tell, I'm big on finding some sort of evidence to back up my comments, whether it be conclusive or not).


We can't reason with these people (especially people insane enough to actively seek out membership in that group). Mr. King couldn't have reasoned with them.


Mr. King was fighting a just battle that shouldn't have had to be fought in the first place. It was absurd from the beginning. But in the end, it was two groups of rational people trying to get along, or at least forced to get along. We are not trying to live in peace with people determined to become martyrs. We are not trying to share the world with those who would enslave their own people and practice activities defined as evil by basic American values. We're trying to protect ourselves along with rational Muslims from the nonsensical behavior of those who would tarnish their name.


Different game plan, different rules. Anything less than some sort of death or severe punishment for Mr. Walker would be saying to the world that it's ok to be a terrorist, as long as you're an American. When he took up arms against us, he proved himself no longer one of America's sons.


Nobody would see that, though, so I still agree with you that I was out of line to ask for an execution. Thanks for getting me to think more on it all.


Back to our regularly scheduled program:


May every set you flop hold up. :-)

As I understand it, Walker was given a choice: Undergo serious terrorist training at one of bin Laden's infamous terrorist camps or go fight as a soldier aligned with bin Laden in Afghanistan.

Clearly this was well after the U.S. embassy bombings in Africa and the USS Cole attack.

He has proven that he was not only aware of the USS Cole ambush, but actually championed the event in correspondence to his father, declaring the attack as warranted because we had a warship located in Arab lands. He is a spineless rat dictated to and used by the enemy of innocent people everywhere, bin Laden and his band of unconscionable monsters.

This spineless rat armed himself with a rifle and brandished it against fellow Americans in an unjust war. I hope the only light he ever sees originates from a bare bulb overhead..in his cell.

>As I understand it, Walker was given a choice: >Undergo serious terrorist training at one of bin >Laden's infamous terrorist camps or go fight as >a soldier aligned with bin Laden in Afghanistan.


He chose to fight with the Taliban. He chose not to participate in 9.11. Until 9/11 the Taliban was NOT regarded as a US enemy (as far as I know).


I had had internet contact with Walker in the past. In my opinion he was a misled kid. He was of the opinion that most of the left in this country was a group of sellout pansies who would jump into their late model SUVs the second the going got tough, an observation I'm not sure is entirely incorrect. He also showed a preference for combatting what he perceived as oppression violently. Though I definitely think he made a horrible move in joining the Taliban, I think his case brings up an interesting question:


If the have nots are willing to get violent against the haves, are the haves willing to give up some of their prosperity for peace?

Hetr0n, further in my post, I stated that he had correspondence with his father much earlier than 9-11, in emails that I am sure will be submitted into evidence at his trial. He tried to rationalize the bombing of the USS Cole. That proves in my mind that he was all too aware that the people he was eating, sleeping and fighting with were at war with his own country. And still, he chose to stay there..and fight. That was not a canteen of water he was carrying when he was arrested. It was the very best russian rifle that terrorist monies could buy. I don't see how a bullet would be any less effective if it was fired from the gun of a stupid impressionable man like Walker or a hate-instilled maniac like bin Laden.

Yes he was young but that does not excuse his unconscionable behavior towards his own country and the soldiers that enlist to protect the freedoms that I would wager some of his own relatives have fought to protect in the past.

He made a decision to bear arms against his own country. I daresay he will be held accountable.

Hetr0n, further in my post, I stated that he had correspondence with his father much earlier than 9-11, in emails that I am sure will be submitted into evidence at his trial. He tried to rationalize the bombing of the USS Cole. That proves in my mind that he was all too aware that the people he was eating, sleeping and fighting with were at war with his own country.


Who was at war with his own country? Remember, Walker was found fighting for the Taliban, not Al Qaeda. I have not read the emails you are referring to. However, unless they show that he was involved with the planning of the USS Cole attacks, I can't see how it can be held against him. Just saying he was pro bombing of the USS Cole does not prove anything. The people he was found fighting with were (to the best of my recollection) Taliban soldiers fighting against the Northern Alliance and other warlords. I think it is important to make this distinction. So far I have not heard of any particularly damninig evidence that he was either a. involved in planning the 9/11 attacks or b. was involved in the killing any american soldiers. I think unless the prosecution can prove any of these two things the case against him is not very strong.