Huge difference in competition - cash vs MTT's

[DVO]

Some quick background, to put my views into context:

After mostly playing online MTT's for the past two years, with good success ( 275 tourneys, avg size 300, 5 wins, 23 Final tables), I have been playing more cash games lately. 5000 hands at full table Party $200NL and $400NL, which is not many. I am barely ahead at the cash games. From posting a few hands and reading this baord diligently, I also know I am a mediocre cash player at this point, inferior to my tournament play for sure.

Having said all this:

I am stunned at how much tougher ( and tighter) the cash games are. Or, to put it better, I am stunned at how many inferior players populate the MTT's. A typical MTT table will have 1-4 poor players through level 4, and 1-2 poor players pretty deep into the tourney. That is a significant edge for a good player. I am speaking of the $100 tourneys mostly.

Is this because people play these things like the lottery
( i.e., small investment to win a lot, hey , let's gamble!)?

I wonder if I'm making the wrong comparison - i.e, $100 MTT's are comparable to $25NL?

I just don't get it. Thoughts? I'm going to post in both forums. thanks.

[AZK]

it's a function of stack size

[DVO]

"it's a function of stack size "

Meaning, deeper stacks = higher skill needed. Right?

[RoundTower]

[ QUOTE ]
it's a function of stack size

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you explain that? Don't the bigger stacks give players more room to make mistakes, and good players more opportunity to profit from them?

[AZK]

Obviously, but as far as tightness goes, deeper stack means you can also afford to play tighter if you so desire. Probably why you think cash games are so tight.

edit: there also isn`t that fear of going broke in a cash game the way there is in a tourney

[TomCollins]

I stopped reading when I saw NL $400 and tight in the same sentence without the word "not" anywhere in it.

Party MTT's are almost entirely Preflop (or at most Flop) events. Cash games are almost entirely Postflop play. Tournament strategy is also much simpler than Cash game strategy.

Comparing $100 MTTs to $25 NL is a joke. NL $400, even $600 is swarming with fish. Those who venture higher seem to think the fish live there as well, although I don't play that high.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you are the type who gets stacked for 100-200BB with AK with top pair?

[DVO]

"I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you are the type who gets stacked for 100-200BB with AK with top pair? "

No, only with 30BB.... But thanks for the snarky remark. Sheesh!

Interestingly, today I'm 2-tabling the 400NL and it is wild & not tough at all. Maybe I had just run into a dry stretch.

[RikaKazak]

5,000 hands ISN"T A SAMPLE SIZE STOP POSTING AFTER SO LITTLE HANDS

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
5,000 hands ISN"T A SAMPLE SIZE STOP POSTING AFTER SO LITTLE HANDS

[/ QUOTE ]

It is, however, long enough to make some general observations on the level of competition he has seen compared to what he is used to in the MTT's.

[ginko]

[ QUOTE ]
I stopped reading when I saw NL $400 and tight in the same sentence without the word "not" anywhere in it.

Party MTT's are almost entirely Preflop (or at most Flop) events. Cash games are almost entirely Postflop play. Tournament strategy is also much simpler than Cash game strategy.

Comparing $100 MTTs to $25 NL is a joke. NL $400, even $600 is swarming with fish. Those who venture higher seem to think the fish live there as well, although I don't play that high.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you are the type who gets stacked for 100-200BB with AK with top pair?

[/ QUOTE ]


What do you know? I moved to party about 10 days ago to 4 table the 200's. VPIP of all 4 tables is roughly 20%. Every player had 100bb's - 200bb's.

I raise in any position to 5(yes thats 2.5x the blinds) with AA, and I take the pot down. These tables are tight.


TO be fair, this is usually at like 3am, and I do get action sometimes from the occasional fish. These 'tight' players do have a lot of holes in their post flop game. However I honestly don't think you know what your talking about.

[Rococo]

[ QUOTE ]
5,000 hands ISN"T A SAMPLE SIZE STOP POSTING AFTER SO LITTLE HANDS

[/ QUOTE ]

But 178 posts is enough to bash someone else for being a troll . . .

[gergery]

I think it’s more a function of the inherent differences between cash games and MTTs, which are more different than most suspect.

Levels of appropriate aggression, blind stealing, which streets are where the real decisions happen, big stack vs. short stack play, bubble play, leveraging pot odds via being all-in, play due to depth of stack size, how often to defend blinds, fold equity, translation of chips to $, pot control around sizing bets based on intended future street play, and so on are all very different between cash and tourneys.

Some skills are transferable between the two, but many need to be learned for one discipline vs. the other, so it may be a question of your expectation around the two disciplines similarity.

--Greg

[Lucky]

Bottom line, talent goes where the money is. The money is in cash games.