When do you bail?

[pudley4]

I hate this hand.

Loose $3/$6 at Canterbury. UTG folds. UTG+1, +2, +3 all limp. Next player raises (he's raised preflop about 4 hands in a row now, but he rarely bets or raises post-flop). CO and Button fold, SB calls. I'm in the BB with 8 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . I haven't seen a limp-reraise yet at this table. Call or fold?

I call, next 3 call. 6 to the flop for 12 sb.

Flop: A /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif T /forums/images/icons/club.gif 7 /forums/images/icons/club.gif

SB bets. Raise, call, fold?

[RockLobster]

Preflop: I think the right thing to do is fold. With that said, I'd be tempted to see the flop for 1 bet with that pot.

Flop: Fold. You needed to get hit very hard to stick around, and it didn't happen.

[WiredPair]

I'll be the first to admit that I may be too tight in my blinds, but I think I would muck here most of the time pre-flop. Even though MPR has raised 4 times in a row, at some point he may get a real hand. Assuming all players will call the raise behind you, I guess your getting about 9-1 on your call?

On the flop, when the small blind bets out, I think its call or fold. He's probably betting a small ace or maybe a 10. You've picked up a gutshot and a back door flush draw (with a low club, however). If you don't think there will be a raise behind you, a suppose a call is close. I would get out now, however. I think I would be concerned that even if I filled my gutshot, it may give someone else a draw to a bigger straight.

Maybe I'm seeing monsters where there are none, but I would get out.

[pudley4]

I call, next 3 call, preflop raiser raises, sb calls. I call. UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 now raises /forums/images/icons/frown.gif Call, call, fold, and I call. 4 to the turn for 27 sb.

Turn: 9 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif (yay)

I check, UTG+1 bets, 1 caller, I raise, both call.

River: J /forums/images/icons/heart.gif

I bet they both call and my hand is good.

Comments:

1-Preflop. It's likely to be 6-way for 2 bets. I'll most likely be getting 11-1 on my call. Also, the flop might well be checked to the raiser, and he has very often checked behind on the flop.

2-Flop. SB betting out means he most likely has an A and is afraid of the flop being checked around. It's probably not going to be raised behind me since most of these guys liked to wait until the turn to raise, and the preflop raiser didn't like to raise at all (oops).

3-Once I called the SB's bet, the other flop calls were automatic.

4-SB should have gone for the check-raise on the flop. It would have knocked me out and his A may have won.

5-I still hate this hand /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[Vehn]

I used to play this sort of junk in my big blind a lot in these situations but eventually figured out its just not making me money. I need J9 pretty much nowadays to play offsuit one gappers here and that probably doesn't make me money either. On the flop you have a gutshot to the non nuts on an ugly board with a zillion people to act behind you. Even if you KNOW it won't get raised behind you I think you still have a fold simply based on your cards and the board.

[bernie]

i wouldnt have seen the flop, and i wouldnt see the turn.

think ahead. say you get to the flop, as you did. how much are you willing to put into a 3 out draw? it can easily be reraised behind you. you could hit your draw on the turn and be redrawn on. or you could hit your 9 that makes the flush and trap yourself. isnt possible, you say? look at the thought process on how you see the flop with this hand and are contemplating the call on the flop. it's possible.

pick your spots better. this isnt one of them.

b

[bernie]

"1-Preflop. It's likely to be 6-way for 2 bets. I'll most likely be getting 11-1 on my call. Also, the flop might well be checked to the raiser, and he has very often checked behind on the flop."

suited, id agree. i would call but lets say someone has 99. you need 2 cards to win and you dont have a flush possibility that's worth a crap. are you going to collect 30+ bets postflop? doubt it.

"2-Flop. SB betting out means he most likely has an A and is afraid of the flop being checked around. It's probably not going to be raised behind me since most of these guys liked to wait until the turn to raise, and the preflop raiser didn't like to raise at all (oops)."

that's alot of guys to depend on calling behind you.

"3-Once I called the SB's bet, the other flop calls were automatic."

and you paid a ton for that turn card. your effective odds were blown along with your implied odds.

"4-SB should have gone for the check-raise on the flop. It would have knocked me out and his A may have won."

you won the pot, but you lost alot in the longrun on this hand. the sb shouldnt have had to c/r to get you out. this post would be much different if a club had showed up, say, on the river.

sorry to sound harsh, but i dont like how you played this hand. and in making this routine, youll be giving up alot. this isnt much better than the 42o call in another thread. the correlation is the possible hands the others hold against yours.

again, suited, id call. but not here. a case could be made if they were connectors-no gap.

b

[Bob T.]

My personal rule is that I call preflop, with unsuited connectors, if the pot will be big enough so that I could call 1 bet on the flop to a gutshot, if that is what happens. So, with it likely being 12 sbs in the pot preflop, I would call preflop.

On the flop, you did flop a gutshot, but you have three strong factors against continuing. 1 - you are drawing to the nonnut end of the straight. If a 9 comes, you will lose to J8. (its CP 3-6, everyone in the game would play J8 suited, and some of them would play it unsuited,) 2 - there is two to a flush out there, so you have only three 9s that you really want to see, and even if you catch one of those on the turn, anyone with two clubs could redraw against you on the river. 3 - The bet came from your right, and the entire field has yet to act, including the preflop raiser, there is certainly no guarantee, that you will see the turn for 1 bet, in fact, I think that it is likely that there will be more bets put in here on the flop.

I think you have an easy fold right now.

[Homer]

Preflop, I call getting 11:1 with 86. I think it is close.

On the flop, you have an easy fold, because:

-- Many players are left to act behind you and one could raise, destroying your odds
-- The 9c could complete a flush
-- A non-club 9 doesn't give you the nuts

Getting 13:1 with your call closing the action, you have a call. In this situation, you have an easy fold.

-- Homer

[Nottom]

Pre-flop: I would fold. I would do this alomst everytime. If they were suited, I could probably convince myself to play 86s if I was particularly bored and wanted to play a bad hand out of position.

Flop: I would go find my cards in the muck so I could fold them again and I would be hard pressed to convince myself otherwise. You do have a gutshot here but there is a flush draw out there, there are still 4 people to act including the PFR, and its not even a draw to the nuts, so 12:1 isn't going to cut it here.

[GuyOnTilt]

For me, this is an easy one PF. I don't even think twice about mucking 86o from the BB, even if it is LP's 4th straight raise. Then again, some people call me too tight preflop (My percentage is around 21%). I'm always looking for a reason to fold preflop, whereas most people are always looking for a reason to call. It sounds like you're in the latter group. I'd say tighten up a little preflop from the blinds.

On the flop, it's an easy fold. You have to be hit harder than that to stick around. You've got 3 clean outs to hit your winner. That's not enough to stick around. You're getting 13:1 on your flop call, assuming it won't be raised behind you. If you were last to act on the flop, I'd go ahead and see the turn for one SB, but you're out of position to play for a 3-outer. Late position clubs are likely to raise, and if an early position player with a decent ace suspects a free card play, they are likely to 3-bet. For me, this is an easy fold situation.

Fortunately for you, you hit your 3-outer. But what if it hadn't come on the turn? Would you have stuck around for the river? Hopefully not, but it sounds like you're always looking for a reason to call. Tighten up your game some. You're going to be giving away too many chips if you consistently play your hand like this one.