Rounders hand

[Ralle]

How can KGB be so sure his Aces full is the best hand in the beginning of Rounders? After all Mike could have quads. It's not very likely, but it's definitely possible.

[1800GAMBLER]

Strange, i was thinking about this before clicking on this forum today.

I guess they just had him walk off after showing his hand for the film effect.

[SKatuska]

I don't know if KGB is sure about what Mike's holding, but he knows that he has a solid hand and he plays it accordingly.

[rigoletto]

He knew from the script that he would win - duh!

[Mike Gallo]

How can KGB be so sure his Aces full is the best hand in the beginning of Rounders?

Please tell me when you have has Aces full and didnt think you held the nut hand??

I would also go all in with Aces full. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[Nottom]

I'm gonna guess that the look on Mike's face when he showed the aces was enough to know he had won.

[tj00]

I have a question. What do you think KGB had at the end when he was beat by the nut straight?

[vkotlyar]

I think that the movie is great, but the poker in the movie is horrible. First of all, when teddy called mikes 2000 dollar bet in the beggining of the movie, mike put teddy on a flush draw. R u f**kin kiddin me! There was a $1000 in the pot plus the small blind before the flop. Mike bet $2000. Teddy is gonna miss the flush by the river 1 in 3 times, and he calls a bet thats twice the size of the pot, heads up!!! Thats horrible. How can mike even put him on a flush draw. You have to put him on 2 pair or a set right away! Now, the 9 comes, completing the boat for mike. And what does he do? He checks, "hoping that a spade will fall". And what if a spade doesnt fall? He just missed another $2000 bet on the turn. You have to assume that if teddy is indeed on a flush draw, he will call at least $2000 now, since he doesnt understand pot odds anyhow. And the spade comes, and teddy bets, and mike pushes all in. I actually agree with that play!
Now, as for the end of the movie, the flop comes 6 9 10r. Now, teddy puts mike on a sr8 draw. he thinks he has 10J or 8J. Now, teddy pays the size of the pot to draw to his str8. You gotta be kiddin me. As for teddy, once he felt that mike missed his draw, whats the point of betting if you already have a hand? He isnt gonna call anyway. Teddy wasnt affraid of the ace, so the ace either improved his hand, or he could beat an ace. I put teddy on A10s!
-vitaly

[Ralle]

I agree that some of the poker is questionable. But I think most of it makes sense and in any case it's better than anything else in the movies. And remember that KGB is on tilt at the end, and he has made it personal, he doesn't just want to win, he wants to humiliate Mike.

[Nottom]

Implied odds in no-limit are a bit higher than limit. The bets are small in comparison to the stacks, so a call of the realtively small pot with a flush draw is generally justified.

[Inthacup]

It has been widely discussed here. I've read several threads where people have said they've read the script and it said that he had 10 10 for a flopped set.

[lefty rosen]

2/3 off bluff bet....lol

[lefty rosen]

Guys push ace high hard headsup, but this was a shorttable no limit game, not really headsup, and yeah if Mike was really a grinder there is no way he doesn't see a possibilty of a nut full, even a rookie could see that....

[OffSuit72]

/forums/images/icons/grin.gif .Hey...That was going to be my answer
/forums/images/icons/mad.gif

[Ralle]

That's right, but Mike is distracted. He's not playing his best game. He says "All I could think of was Vegas and the [censored] Mirage" (I hope my quote is accurate).

[Ralle]

Hey! You shouldn't censor that. It was a quote! (Not that it really matters, it's just a matter of principle, a quote shouldn't be considered offensive. But I guess it's due to the automated censoring, so it's pretty ok, I can't expect a real person to sit and read through all the posts).

[Punker]

Mike never should have been dealt in that hand at all. He is at the table with 3 opponents: two "rich flounders" and KGB, who he acknowledges as a tough player.

Mike has close to 60K on the table, KGB has (apparently) more. The two "rich flounders" have very little from what I can see (maybe a couple K apiece at the most). Why is Mike still sitting at the table, risking his huge (relative) stack to try to bust two tiny stacks?

Bad game selection.

[Ralle]

"Bad judgmeeeent"

[bernie]

it's easy to take the hands in a 'limit' context and say how bad the play was. but in no limit, it's a much different animal. not to mention it's shorthanded/HU, which has alot of bluffing/semi-bluffing going on. if one doesnt call at times, even with marginal, lesser draws, he has the chance of being run over in a game.

someone also mentioned that mike shouldve seen the AA as he's a grinder. yes, he should, and probably did. but he also thought he had a solid read the other way. remember, he says later in the flick that he was outplayed...

why couldnt mike have 99 for the quads? why would he go allin? he'd likely trap. i dont see a flush, with a paired board, really liking to call an allin bet here.

last thing. in previous threads some posters were saying that they froze the tape to see the cards flying when KGB throws them. thinking they could see his hand. note that he throws the whole deck on the table and not just his hand.

anyways, i put teddy on top set. no way he has only 2 pair. he was tilting and basically telling mike what he had. when he says the hand is no good saying mike is on a draw (5 outer), even when the A shows, he's saying 2 pair isnt any good. because he had 2 pair beat the whole way with a set.

but it is a movie and it's in the script. but i think it was fantastically done.

b

[Duke]

Why doesn't someone just ask Johnny Chan? I'm pretty sure he'd know, being a technical advisor and all.

~D

[RocketManJames]

If you put the DVD in slow-motion when he throws the cards in disgust, you will be able to see the pocket 10s that KGB held.

-RMJ

[bernie]

except he throws the deck (he was dealing the hand) and not just his 2 cards. watch it in slower motion. or fast.

b

[Tyler Durden]

I agree with you on this but an all-in raise for $33,000 in that game by that opponent would have me second-guessing myself.

[nicky g]

Isn't the worst hand the one against Johnny Chan? I don't play at the high limits but would Chan really lay any hand down when he could see the flop for another $300 and he's already put in $900? He's getting at least 8-1 on his call, not to mention implied odds. Surely folding is terrible poker?

[happyjaypee]

If you put the DVD in slow-motion when he throws the cards in disgust, you will be able to see the pocket 10s that KGB held.

If you put the DVD in slow-motion when he throws the cards in disgust, you will be able to see he is actually throwing the deck! he was the dealer on that hand and is hole card are protected, on the table, in front of him.


-Happy /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

[happyjaypee]

would Chan really lay any hand down when he could see the flop for another $300 and he's already put in $900?

The flop was already out. It's actually the flop betting we see in the movie.


-Happy /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

[nicky g]

Really? That makes a lot more sense, but I don't think it's clear from the film. I'll watch again.

[lefty rosen]

Maybe Chan had rags too(or Ace high) didnt want to call the "obvious loser". Plus they had to have that scene for dramatic affect..... Love the scene myself "You sonofabitch you put a move on Chan".

[Nottom]

I get a kick out of how Mike decides he can win the WSOP after winning one hand in a limit game against Chan.

[SoBeDude]

As I recall,

He never said he was sure he'd win. He said he was good enough to sit at that table, didn't he?

But you rounders freaks should know better than I.

I can't believe you people actually do things like slo-mo the movie to try to figure out KGB's hand...

-Scott

[Duke]

It really depends what he had, and what he put Mike on. No, I'd never make this fold. I would throw in the last call, and then fold on the flop unless I was helped in a huge way by it, for precisely the reasons that you state.

I think they were trying to show a great no limit play, but were sort of limited to having it in a public cardroom where it's unlikely to find a no limit game.

~D

[gte910h]

They say that in the movie though. Kanish(sp?) says something like that.

[elysium]

hi ralle
he has mike on the flush. remember, mike is a better player than KGB and mike has KGB on the flush. so, if it's possible for mike to mistakenly put KGB on the flush, it's equally, if not more possible for KGB to make the same error.

they both were wrong.

[lorinda]

I can't believe you people actually do things like slo-mo the movie to try to figure out KGB's hand...

Did you know that in Star Wars if you look closely on video, you can see that the droid that moves from right to left across the screen as Luke stands looking for R2 is actually on a string and being pulled.

Also, when R2 is purchased, you see the Red droid back in line briefly, just before it cuts back to where the Red droid is still being mended where it blew up, several feet away.

And you can only clearly see the Stormtrooper bang his head on the door in the Death Star in slow motion too.

In short, slow motion is great /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif


By the way, if I am ever in a movie, and my hand is only Aces full, and I'm up against the hero, I'm sure as hell not calling.

Lori