AQ UTG+1 awful?

[AlphaWice]

PokerStars Game #2668934567: Tournament #12956673, Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2005/09/26 - 21:57:05 (ET)
Table '12956673 247' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: GodMaster (1550 in chips)
Seat 2: bikerfett (1520 in chips)
Seat 3: AlphaWice (1520 in chips)
Seat 4: nealster (680 in chips)
Seat 5: Lola_G (1390 in chips)
Seat 6: cobratomato (2470 in chips)
Seat 7: Toaster11 (1380 in chips)
Seat 8: SIMDOG11 (1470 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 9: imtheahole (1480 in chips)
imtheahole: posts small blind 10
GodMaster: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AlphaWice [Qs Ah]
bikerfett: raises 60 to 80
AlphaWice: folds

[tiger7210]

yes, awful. You have position and a strong hand. You can make a case here for flat calling or even reraising here and trying to take the lead as well as getting some information about strength of opponent's hand as well as getting the pot HU in position. If he reraises you can be pretty sure you're beat and if he flat calls you have position the rest of the way but I really can't see folding here unless you have some incredible read on villain that he would only raise from UTG w AA/KK/QQ/AK.

[betgo]

I don't think the fold was terrible. High card hands are not great with deep money. UTG raised 4xBB. The play may be loose this early and UTG may not have a great hand, but any standard UTG raising hand other than AQ is ahead of AQ.

I would probably flat call, but reraising is bad. UTG is representing a better hand than yours, and there are 8 players to act. What if you reraise and UTG or someone else puts in a 3rd raise?

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think the fold was terrible. High card hands are not great with deep money. UTG raised 4xBB. The play may be loose this early and UTG may not have a great hand, but any standard UTG raising hand other than AQ is ahead of AQ.

and there are 8 players to act.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm, AQoff isn't that strong after early raise, but 2 factors lead me to call:

1.) You'll have position on him
2.) You can always just throw away your hand if you don't connect and not lose a lot of money

any reads on the raiser would help.. what kind of cards has he been raising with from EP?

I feel like I am in this situation way too often and it is always an awkward one for me. If i call and an ace falls where am i? If i call and get a queen high flop where am i? IMO i'd rather call this bet with 22 than AQ.

Also, this guy most likely knows what he is supposed to have and can probly bluff me of almost anyboard besides AQx.

[adanthar]

This is a very quick fold, 90% due to position.

[ansky451]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a very quick fold, 90% due to position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously...

You only have "position" on the raiser. You have horrible table position. I sometimes call this, sometimes fold, depends on the table, and the player.

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a very quick fold, 90% due to position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you play AQo on the button here? I would. I wouldn't love it but you can't always give the UTG raiser credit for AK, people open with a lot less.

The guy who said he'd rather have 22 than AQ probably had a valid point. In fact, 22 would be an easy call, if not for the fact that someone might raise behind you - but that's the problem with the original question, too. This situation comes up the time and I always dump AQo in EP to a normal raiser.

Yes, why does it always have to be AQ or AJ in this spot. I hate those easy, yet painful, laydowns

[gobboboy]

I play suited one gappers sometimes in this spot. I'm sure as hell reraising AQo.

I'll take the suited one gapper everytime over AQ here.
Although i probably wouldn't call with either because there are 7 players left to act.

[ansky451]

I'd love a 97s here, and yes I would call preflop with it.

[Blindcurve]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd love a 97s here, and yes I would call preflop with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. Especially early in a low limit where the calling req's are so wide, this pot will likely end up multi-way, and the stacks are juicy.

However,
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure as hell reraising AQo.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Mainly because of the same reasons. I think a fold here decreases the luck factor. I also don't want to get pushed on when I raise. I think it's very likely we end up in a pot where we're the dominating ace, there's another ace and a pair and an ATC. There will be better spots. Note that with AK, we're a lot better off- any pair is a coinflip, any ace is dominated. Although I certainly wouldn't want to get in the above scenario, I'd feel better about it with AK.

Also, this may be a bit weak-tight, but this hand is NOT the sole determinant of my tourney success.

-D.

[ QUOTE ]
I feel like I am in this situation way too often and it is always an awkward one for me. If i call and an ace falls where am i? If i call and get a queen high flop where am i? IMO i'd rather call this bet with 22 than AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a tough situation, but you can't always have TPTK or an overpair to make a move.. Ace high flop.. see what your opponent does, and how strong he bets (Betting into an ace high flop without an ace and a person behind him indicates he probably has an ace too).. if his bet seems weak or he checks you can call/lead the flop.. if his bet was truly defensive, then he'll probably check the turn, in that case you can scoop it up.. if he bets the turn then AK is very plausible

Queen high flop is clearer.. you only have to worry about 2 hands that beat you, KK and AA.. AA is unlikely since you have an ace, so on a queen high flop, you should definitely be pretty aggressive.. of course someone can always have KK, and it's hard to get away from the hand.. I sometimes like to defensive raise to see if my hand is good.. expensive move, but allows you to not go broke /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[AlphaWice]

Is this correct to call 1/15th a stack with a suited one gap in EP? Huh?

[ansky451]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this correct to call 1/15th a stack with a suited one gap in EP? Huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's right or wrong as much as it is a personal style. Its closer to 1/20th anyway.

Auto-fold.

And yes, I'm weak tight.