time for a bubble bully play?

[TheNoodleMan]

UTG has been playing decent poker and seems to have an idea about bubble play.
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t670)
BB (t1220)
UTG (t2385)
Hero (t3725)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG raises to 1220

<font color="red"> Hero? </font>

[pergesu]

I would pwn him so hard here.

But it's probably a bad idea. If he has any clue, he'll know that you'll want to shove over the top, so he should have a big hand.

I shove anyway though /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I muck this and shove the next hand if the shortstack is still alive. U said that UTG has been playing decent, so he obviously knows that he's commited with that raise.

[caretaker1]

The idea is good in principle, but I think he has a hard time folding with half his stack committed. I'd wait for another shot.

$.02; "Damnit I won't holla"

[TheNoodleMan]

I pushed, both blinds folded.
UTG said nice bet......waited.....waited....tolde me he had 77....used his time bank..... <font color="red"> CALLED! </font>..... I spiked a king...pwning is easy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Chaostracize]

Numbingly easy push.

[HighestCard]

[ QUOTE ]
Numbingly easy push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you mind elaborating on this because im not finding an "easy button" in the options.

[Chaostracize]

Even if you lose you're still left with 1400. But the vast majority of the time UTG will not call this raise because look at the SB. He has 1 BBs after posting. What will happen most times is SB will fold hoping you knock out UTG and then UTG will fold hoping SB gets knocked out soon. Nothing bad comes from pushing here. When this is the case you push. So, in conclusion you push. Because pushing is right.

[top6]

What do you mean by decent? Do you mean he (a) has only been playing good hands and has not made any dumb calls or (b) has been playing aggressive on the bubble and has stolen more than his "fair" share of pots. If (a) , I fold. If (b), I consider pushing.

I would think this is also heavily dependent on your image at this time. If you haven't been stealing constantly, and if you haven't shown down a bad hand or two, then I would lean towards pushing.

That would be my thought process, anyway. I have to say I'd probably fold this, unless one of the above factors pointed strongly to a call, and I am usually looking for any excuse to raise or push on the bubble. Is this really a "numbingly easy" push? Do most UTG fold most hands to get into the money?

[kevstreet]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG has been playing decent poker and seems to have an idea about bubble play

[/ QUOTE ]

... up until this hand. Man did he ever mis-play this one. Why on earth would he give you this option and then CALL. If he's going to call, why not push? Unless he's holding a monster and is inviting this play which of course is not the case.

[TheNoodleMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UTG has been playing decent poker and seems to have an idea about bubble play

[/ QUOTE ]

... <font color="red"> up until this hand.</font> Man did he ever mis-play this one. Why on earth would he give you this option and then CALL. If he's going to call, why not push? Unless he's holding a monster and is inviting this play which of course is not the case.

[/ QUOTE ]
You nailed it. He had an idea, but obviously has a lot left to learn. When he bet EXACTLY the amount the BB had left, I just knew that he was looking to play heads up against either shorty. I think the real question is what kind of a read do I need to have on a player to NOT make this push? This kind of play works best on a middle of the road player who has some intuative sense of the bubble, but doesn't understand it well enough to know not to make this kind of opening raise.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the real question is what kind of a read do I need to have on a player to NOT make this push?

[/ QUOTE ]

i thought your read of "knows how to play the bubble" was enough. then this play should only be AA/KK or so.

i was going to post that he would think for a while then panic-call with A5s and you'd both be pissed about the hand.

[kevstreet]

Not to be results oriented but I think you spiking the King proves how good your shove was AND I would have made the same read about his exact bet size. Then exactly as Schwza suspected he threw aside the reason he made that precise raise in the first place, panicked, and called. Villain's play kind of reminds me of mistakes I've made in the past, on the bubble, prior to reading 2+2. If he pushes, it's an easy fold for you.

Not that it matters all that much, but what buy in is this?

[TheNoodleMan]

[ QUOTE ]

Not that it matters all that much, but what buy in is this?

[/ QUOTE ]
30+3

[Pete H]

I'd fold.

They just can't let go their PP or A high when they've bet half of their stacks.

NP: Loudness - Never Change Your Mind