betholdem sucks at accounting...

[PITTM]

i deposited 500 bucks after signing up for their "35% rakeback" offer. they also gave me a 120 dollar bonus for their sportsbook. i bet it all on the 49ers/eagles game last week and lost. so i went and played poker for a bit, got crushed by the 0 players playing and ended with 401. i didnt like the site so i went to withdraw. and when i went to withdraw the 401 they said i had a pending bonus i had to cancel first. so i called and asked them to cancel my bonus and send 401 to my neteller account. they sent 281 and said that they took the other 120 to make up for the bonus. i reminded them that they lost no money on the bonus and i am confused as hell as to how they could possibly use that kind of logic to decide to keep my money. are they insane here or am i just being unreasonable? i thought "bonus" meant bonus, and not "if you use it, we'll just take your money".

rj

[PITTM]

okay, so now they figured out their problem and gave me my money back, but now they are saying i cant withdraw for a month. my immediate response, "are you guys trying as hard as possible to get me to never play here again? because its working. supervisor please."

rj

[PITTM]

after the supervisor swore at me a few times and told me that she wouldnt send me deposit though FOR 30 DAYS!!! she told me to call their manager tomorrow morning. i would seriously consider blacklisting this site. is there anyway i can transfer this money to another prima skin and withdraw that way? these people are like theyre trying to repel customers at an astonishing rate.

rj

[Lurker4]

I had some similar problems with them adding a bonus that blocked my cashout; it took several emails to clear it up but they did let me cashout. Accounting seemed very incompetent, adding a bonus in the wrong place, etc. They seem to be ok for the most part, haven't heard too many problems similar to yours. I like to play at Prima w/35% rakeback, but I still am a bit hesitant to keep more than two or three buy-ins for my regular game there. Hope your situation works out ok.

[PITTM]

[ QUOTE ]
I had some similar problems with them adding a bonus that blocked my cashout; it took several emails to clear it up but they did let me cashout. Accounting seemed very incompetent, adding a bonus in the wrong place, etc. They seem to be ok for the most part, haven't heard too many problems similar to yours. I like to play at Prima w/35% rakeback, but I still am a bit hesitant to keep more than two or three buy-ins for my regular game there. Hope your situation works out ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, looks like im gonna have to wait 30 days to get my money. i told them i would tell all my friends never to play at their site, so i give that advice to everyone on this board. my parting words to the supervisor were, "you know whats funny? in 30 days ill have my money, and you guys will have one less customer. i dont know why im the one whos mad."

rj

[Randy_Refeld]

THey waived

[ QUOTE ]
Bonus funds, plus deposit amount must be rolled over at least five (5) times before bonus monies can be withdrawn

[/ QUOTE ]

and you somehoe feel cheated?

If you didn't want to clear the sports bonus you shouldn't have bet it.

[PITTM]

please explain to me how them holding my money for 30 days will somehow make them feel better? because it wont, and its convinced me to never play at their site again, what a fantastic business plan. do something stupid based on principle and lose customers, boo yah!

rj

[Randy_Refeld]

I'm sure you can withdraw. They do charge for more than one withdrawl in a 30 day period. This is all spelled out in the T&C.

So your complaint comes down to they are giving you $120 free money, but you won't play there becasue they aren't giving you the free money fast enough. I am sure they will miss your action.

[jmillerdls]

Interesting, I had a very bad situation with them as well. I deposited for the sign-up bonus, and played the required hands (as it shows on the front page of their software), i emailed them for the bonus and they told me that I hadn't played enough hands.
I refused to play more hands, and just kept emailing them, until over 24 hours later they acknowledged I had enough hands for the bonus (the same amount I had played when I first requested the bonus).
They never credit me with the bonus, so I request it from live support (through the sportsbook webpage). They notice the error, and credit me the bonus (this is after 3 days of emails with them claiming I had got the bonus, even though it was never credited).
When I try and cashout, they claim that I had been given the bonus twice, and remove the bonus amount from my account. I basically lose it at this point.
I finally did get the bonus after around 30 emails to them. Took over a week from the time I completed the bonus to the time I got this straightened out and cashed out.
Would never play there again, and would advise anyone else to skip this one..plenty of others.

[PITTM]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure you can withdraw. They do charge for more than one withdrawl in a 30 day period. This is all spelled out in the T&C.

So your complaint comes down to they are giving you $120 free money, but you won't play there becasue they aren't giving you the free money fast enough. I am sure they will miss your action.

[/ QUOTE ]

respond again when you can read.

rj

[Pokeraddict]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure you can withdraw. They do charge for more than one withdrawl in a 30 day period. This is all spelled out in the T&C.

So your complaint comes down to they are giving you $120 free money, but you won't play there becasue they aren't giving you the free money fast enough. I am sure they will miss your action.

[/ QUOTE ]

respond again when you can read.

rj

[/ QUOTE ]

So your complaint comes down to they are giving you $120 free money, but you won't play there because they aren't giving you the free money fast enough. I am sure they will miss your action.

You are missing this point in bold.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure you can withdraw. They do charge for more than one withdrawl in a 30 day period. This is all spelled out in the T&C.

So your complaint comes down to they are giving you $120 free money, but you won't play there becasue they aren't giving you the free money fast enough. I am sure they will miss your action.

[/ QUOTE ]

respond again when you can read.

rj

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not the one that either couldn't read the T&C or decided to try to just steal from them.

edit to add from the T&C
[ QUOTE ]
Withdrawal of any amount made within 30 days of initial deposit will result in bonus monies being forfeited

[/ QUOTE ]

SO what was your compalint again?

[Muisyle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure you can withdraw. They do charge for more than one withdrawl in a 30 day period. This is all spelled out in the T&C.

So your complaint comes down to they are giving you $120 free money, but you won't play there becasue they aren't giving you the free money fast enough. I am sure they will miss your action.

[/ QUOTE ]

respond again when you can read.

rj

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not the one that either couldn't read the T&C or decided to try to just steal from them.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I gather from the OP:

He deposits $500. Bankroll $500.

He is given $120 bonus. Bankroll $620.

He bets the bonus and loses it. Bankroll $500 (all HIS money)

He plays poker and loses some. Bankroll $401 (HIS money).

He attempts to withdraw. Withdrawal $281 (Site takes $120 bonus out of HIS money).

I would be pretty pissed too.

Imagine this. He puts in $500. They DON'T give him a bonus. He loses the money playing poker and has $401. He withdraws $401. Why the [censored] does he lose $120 of his own money because they gave him a bonus?

I'm sure it says somewhere in the T&C "user always wagers own money before bonus money" or some other yada, which is just cheap, but then contemplate this. He deposits $500, gets $120 bonus. He withdraws $500. He's not withdrawing any bonus so this shouldn't be a problem. He bets the bonus and loses it. Are they going to call him up and say "uh, you owe us $120, please redeposit"? Because that's the scenario here.

Edit: I see now that they gave him back the $120 they took out after emails and phonecalls. My point still stands though unless this is a one time software error and not policy.

[jmillerdls]

he can't bet the bonus. He can bet his money until he clears the bonus. If he doesn't complete the wager requirement, then he doesn't get the bonus. So, he wagered his money, lost, and doesn't get any bonus money to cover those losses.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
He bets the bonus and loses it. Bankroll $500 (all HIS money)

[/ QUOTE ]

If he didn't want to try to clear the bonus he could have asked them to remove it. WHenyou accept the bonus money and bet with it you have to clear the bonus before you can withdraw. It is a bonus not a free roll.

Also he is suppsoed to lose the bonus for withdrawing any money in the first 30 days. They waived clearing it and waived forfiture and he is complaining? And you'd be pissed to?

If you think you get free money too slow don't it. DO you expect a monthly fee to not be pissed? If I wanted to give you some free money what terms would you require to not be pissed? DO they need to come to your house in person to take free money??

[Muisyle]

The point is the house doesn't lose ANY money by giving out this bonus. This is not like taking the bonus and losing it to another PLAYER where the house doesn't get it back. The lost sportsbook bonus goes directly to the houe. If he bets the bounus and loses it (TO THEM) they come out at zero. If he bets the bonus and wins, they can take the $120 out of his account when he tries to withdraw (unless he clears it).

How can you say they should PROFIT off giving someone a bonus? He already lost the bonus back to them, then they are taking an ADDITIONAL $120 from him, they already got their bonus back! Net $120 to the casino!

It's not like I'm asking them to just give out free money. This bonus should be a zero sum game (minus vig, and unless he clears it). And it's not like they aren't getting anything out of giving out bonuses, they are doing it to attract players.

[PITTM]

nothing like making insanely irrelevant analogies to make your point.

rj

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
The point is the house doesn't lose ANY money by giving out this bonus. This is not like taking the bonus and losing it to another PLAYER where the house doesn't get it back. The lost sportsbook bonus goes directly to the houe. If he bets the bounus and loses it (TO THEM) they come out at zero. If he bets the bonus and wins, they can take the $120 out of his account when he tries to withdraw (unless he clears it).

How can you say they should PROFIT off giving someone a bonus? He already lost the bonus back to them, then they are taking an ADDITIONAL $120 from him, they already got their bonus back! Net $120 to the casino!

It's not like I'm asking them to just give out free money. This bonus should be a zero sum game (minus vig, and unless he clears it). And it's not like they aren't getting anything out of giving out bonuses, they are doing it to attract players.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they allowed everyone a free bet they wouldn't be able to afford to give bonuses to their actual customers. These have to be restrictive because there are so many bums on the net. In this case they agreed to give him $120 he hand't earned. WHy would someone play a bonus and then complain about the terms if you don't like the terms or are too lazy to read them don't play. Online casinos exist to make a profit not to give money away to bums. If you dont' like how they give free money tell them you don't want it that you prefer to just play yopur own money.

[Bascule]

[ QUOTE ]
What I gather from the OP:

He deposits $500. Bankroll $500.

He is given $120 bonus. Bankroll $620.

He bets the bonus and loses it. Bankroll $500 (all HIS money)

He plays poker and loses some. Bankroll $401 (HIS money).

He attempts to withdraw. Withdrawal $281 (Site takes $120 bonus out of HIS money).

I would be pretty pissed too.

Imagine this. He puts in $500. They DON'T give him a bonus. He loses the money playing poker and has $401. He withdraws $401. Why the [censored] does he lose $120 of his own money because they gave him a bonus?

I'm sure it says somewhere in the T&C "user always wagers own money before bonus money" or some other yada, which is just cheap, but then contemplate this. He deposits $500, gets $120 bonus. He withdraws $500. He's not withdrawing any bonus so this shouldn't be a problem. He bets the bonus and loses it. Are they going to call him up and say "uh, you owe us $120, please redeposit"? Because that's the scenario here.

Edit: I see now that they gave him back the $120 they took out after emails and phonecalls. My point still stands though unless this is a one time software error and not policy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some crypto sites do this as well (Will Hill and Littlewoods IIRC), except the "bonus" is for wagering in their online casinos. If you withdraw your poker bankroll, you can wager the bonus money (with restrictions on cashouts if you win), but if you try and use the casino with real money in your account it will take that off you first, leaving the useless bonus money. (The bonus money cannot be earned by playing poker, only by playing casino games. I forget the wagering requirement but I expect that the -EV of the wagers conveniently equals the size of the bonus).

Infuriatingly, the bonus money appears in the poker account balance, and has frequently confused me as to my true account balance. I've emptied my littlewoods account of real money, and periodically the cheeky fuckers mail me and tell me that there's money left in my account, because I'm ignoring the unwanted, and unasked for, casino bonuses.

I feel that this practise is an immoral scam. I'm glad you didn't give up on it and got your money back PITTM.

[itsmarty]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />
The point is the house doesn't lose ANY money by giving out this bonus.

[/ QUOTE ]

He had a chance to win his sportsbook bet for $120. If betholdem were to let everyone wager their bonus and just walk away if they lose, they would shortly be out of business.

The fact that he lost his wager to the house doesn't matter. By placing a wager with the bonus money he incurred an obligation to either wager his (deposit + bonus) x 5 or cash out for his remaining funds - $120. This was clear in the T&amp;C of the site and is very much a standard form of casino bonus.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />
How can you say they should PROFIT off giving someone a bonus? He already lost the bonus back to them, then they are taking an ADDITIONAL $120 from him, they already got their bonus back! Net $120 to the casino!

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly why they give you the bonus. They expect to profit from it or break even, either because you lose the money and have to pay it back from your deposit or because you roll it over enough times that you pay more than $120 in juice.

The OP should have been overjoyed at the prospect of getting his full funds back in 30 days. Whatever problems betholdem may have (and I know nothing about them beyond what I've read in this thread), in this case they went above and beyond for someone who is apparently a massive tool.

Martin

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
The point is the house doesn't lose ANY money by giving out this bonus. This is not like taking the bonus and losing it to another PLAYER where the house doesn't get it back. The lost sportsbook bonus goes directly to the houe. If he bets the bounus and loses it (TO THEM) they come out at zero. If he bets the bonus and wins, they can take the $120 out of his account when he tries to withdraw (unless he clears it).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if this is serious or not....that's the sad part

[PITTM]

apparently...

rj

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
The OP should have been overjoyed at the prospect of getting his full funds back in 30 days. Whatever problems betholdem may have (and I know nothing about them beyond what I've read in this thread), in this case they went above and beyond for someone who is apparently a massive tool

[/ QUOTE ]

I play there almost daily. It is a prima skin so there isn't much to say about the games. Cash outs have always been prompt (I only casho out once a month as they charge for more than 1 a month). The one cash out a month is annoying, but first and foremost they are a sports book and this does seem to be inline with the few sports accounts I have looked at. I have found the phone support to be slightly lacking in that English is not their first language so when I had to call them what shoudl have been a 3 min ute call took about 5 mins.

[PITTM]

you play at a site all the time that has bad games, poor cashout, poor software and poor support? and im the massive tool? weird...

rj

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
you play at a site all the time that has bad games, poor cashout, poor software and poor support? and im the massive tool? weird...

rj

[/ QUOTE ]

Well they did go out of their way to help somneone that is just out to get/steal whatever he can and then move on to the next site. Who said the games are bad? The games are pretty juicy and I get a massive amount of rake back.

I am far too old to call someone a tool. I merely pointed out that it is in really poor taste to get free money and then complain about the spped with which you receive the free money.

[PITTM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you play at a site all the time that has bad games, poor cashout, poor software and poor support? and im the massive tool? weird...

rj

[/ QUOTE ]

Well they did go out of their way to help somneone that is just out to get/steal whatever he can and then move on to the next site. Who said the games are bad? The games are pretty juicy and I get a massive amount of rake back.

I am far too old to call someone a tool. I merely pointed out that it is in really poor taste to get free money and then complain about the spped with which you receive the free money.

[/ QUOTE ]

apparently you STILL havent read my original post, as that isnt what im complaining about AT ALL. so far all you have done is misinterpret what i said and made insane analogies to prove your point. it seems pretty lame to me.

rj

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you play at a site all the time that has bad games, poor cashout, poor software and poor support? and im the massive tool? weird...

rj

[/ QUOTE ]



Well they did go out of their way to help somneone that is just out to get/steal whatever he can and then move on to the next site. Who said the games are bad? The games are pretty juicy and I get a massive amount of rake back.

I am far too old to call someone a tool. I merely pointed out that it is in really poor taste to get free money and then complain about the spped with which you receive the free money.

[/ QUOTE ]

apparently you STILL havent read my original post, as that isnt what im complaining about AT ALL. so far all you have done is misinterpret what i said and made insane analogies to prove your point. it seems pretty lame to me.

rj

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain what I am missing. You deposited $500 to play poker and received a $120 bonus in the sports book. You were able to find the sports book to make a wager, but didn't bother to read the T&amp;C (Bonus funds, plus deposit amount must be rolled over at least five (5) times before bonus monies can be withdrawn). THen you decided you didn't like the games so you decided to withdraw. When you withdrew you once again ignore the T&amp;C (Withdrawal of any amount made within 30 days of initial deposit will result in bonus monies being forfeited). They intitially followed the T&amp;C and took back the uncleared bonus and gave you your money. You were unhappy after this so in order to make yopu happy in case you misuderestood the clear terms they gave you $120. You chose to come on here and complain that they will not let you immediately withdraw the free money to bet at a competitor.

As far as the poker bonus not immediately posting I believe most (maybe all) the Prima sites update hands played in batches and issue bonuses there.

If I have in someway misrepresented your complaint please tell me.

Edit to add: You should probably clarify if they are going to allow you to withdraw the remaining $120 or if they expect you to wager the $2980 that is left to clear the bonus and make the money truly yours.

[blackize]

I like how everyone is missing the biggest issue of all here. How could you bet on the Eagles/49ers game and LOSE? On what planet are the 9ers likely to beat the spread vs the Eagles, reigning NFC champs

[PITTM]

under the circumstances where the spread is 14.5. id take the bet again if offered.

rj

[Pokeraddict]

[ QUOTE ]
under the circumstances where the spread is 14.5. id take the bet again if offered.

rj

[/ QUOTE ]

But it was only 9 points and I see you have no comment to Randy's point.

[craig r]

OAK was +9 this week. SF opened at +13.5 vs PHI.

craig

[PITTM]

actually, it was 14.5. and the fact that people still cant read basic information is making this stupider and stupider. i have a comment, hence me posting it 3 times. i think my point has been made.

rj

[tonypaladino]

I don't understand why PITTM is being attacked for this?

It is my understanding that the $120 bonus is exclusively for the sportsbook, and is in a seperate sub-account. He bet the $120, lost it, and that should be it. This is similar to a casino bonus where it has to be rolled over x number of times, but if you put the entire bonus amount on black, and lose it, that's it, you do not have to repay the money. OP should not have had $120 held from his withdrawal.

[PITTM]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why PITTM is being attacked for this?

It is my understanding that the $120 bonus is exclusively for the sportsbook, and is in a seperate sub-account. He bet the $120, lost it, and that should be it. This is similar to a casino bonus where it has to be rolled over x number of times, but if you put the entire bonus amount on black, and lose it, that's it, you do not have to repay the money. OP should not have had $120 held from his withdrawal.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is pretty much the case. in my cashiers screen, the amounts were completely separate. making me think that the security of my poker funds didnt depend on what happened with my sportsbook bonus. today i got an email back from them saying they were changing the way they credit the bonus because people had complained they were being scammed. apparently im not the only one who is unhappy with this.

rj

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why PITTM is being attacked for this?

It is my understanding that the $120 bonus is exclusively for the sportsbook, and is in a seperate sub-account. He bet the $120, lost it, and that should be it. This is similar to a casino bonus where it has to be rolled over x number of times, but if you put the entire bonus amount on black, and lose it, that's it, you do not have to repay the money. OP should not have had $120 held from his withdrawal.

[/ QUOTE ]

His bonus is based on the size of the deposit he made to the sports book. This is just like a casino bonus. In most of the casinos if you bet the entire bonus on black and lose it isn't over, you cannot withdraw your original deposit until after you make the play through requirement. On this book they allow ou to play poker and sports from the same account, but if you wager the bonus you are supposed to clear it. In this case since there appeared to be a misunderstanding they agreed to give the OP the money to make him happy. Instead of being happy that it was worked out once they determined the problem he came here to complain that he wasn't getting the money fast enough.

[SirArthur]

I had a negative experience with BHE a few months back.

I made a deposit, played some poker for about a week, and when I went to make a withdrawal they told me I hadn't cleared my sportsbook bonus of $20 or something.

They said I had to clear it first or the $20 would be forfeited.
Through emails, I said fine, go ahead and cancel the $20 (whoop dee fricken doo)

Finally after nearly two weeks of emails, those chowder heads finally cancelled that $20 bonus, and I was able to make a withdrawal. It was a very frustrating process.

I've played at nearly a dozen poker sites, made countless deposits &amp; withdrawals, and never had a problem at any of them, except for BHE.

The NL games have really dried up at Prima since I used to play last year all the time (through TGC) so I haven't been back to BHE since and I don't plan on trying them again.

[PITTM]

[ QUOTE ]
His bonus is based on the size of the deposit he made to the sports book. This is just like a casino bonus. In most of the casinos if you bet the entire bonus on black and lose it isn't over, you cannot withdraw your original deposit until after you make the play through requirement.

[/ QUOTE ]

the only two places where ive signed up for a poker account and been given a bonus in the sportsbook (eurobet and inter) i went to the casino/sportsbook, played with my bonus, lost it and then had to face no further restrictions, i guess im just not used to that?

[ QUOTE ]
On this book they allow ou to play poker and sports from the same account, but if you wager the bonus you are supposed to clear it.

[/ QUOTE ]

when i have to transfer money from one account to another i generally dont consider them the "same" account. i had 600 in my poker account and 120 in my sportsbook account that they gave me as a bonus(without me entering any codes or requesting they give me a bonus). and as i said above, i didnt think that this was associated with my poker account and i guess i was wrong. sorry.

[ QUOTE ]
In this case since there appeared to be a misunderstanding they agreed to give the OP the money to make him happy. Instead of being happy that it was worked out once they determined the problem he came here to complain that he wasn't getting the money fast enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

in regards to the pre-bolded parts, the only misunderstanding was that they actually did make an accounting error, they took the bonus out of my account after it was lost, which they specifically say they dont do.

when i called they credited it back to me immediately but then said i had to wait 30 days to withdraw my money or do the playthrough requirement. i didnt exactly want to keep supporting a site with terrible games, software, support and general accounting staff, so i am just going to wait. but making me wait accomplishes nothing except that they might make 20 cents in interest for this month.

i just think its a stupid policy and that they should provide you with the terms and conditions for a bonus they give you if you dont request it. so as i said before, all that their 30 day restriction has gotten them is 20 cents in interest, me never playing at their site again, and the word out that this site sucks ass, big time.

ive played at 29 different sites and i hadnt had a single problem until this one...well, except for that expekt bonus, but that was COMPLETELY 100% my fault. by the way, that last bolded sentance is just untrue and inflammatory, i hope you learn to communicate your points in a better way than that soon.

rj