Donkey Line?

[Tom Martell]

Villain is a LAG preflop and very aggressive on the turn. He shows down a ton of hands and bluffs aggressively.

Was this an awful line?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

[Tom Martell]

Very helpful. I see how the line you are suggesting is much better, and will work to implement your strategy going forward. Thank you for the constructive post.

No offense, but you are a jopke.

[tolbiny]

Don't try to out LAg a lag. in these situations its usually best to decide if you have a showdown worth hand and then get there cheaply. I don't like the flop three bet as the pain in the ass lags will donk the turn, so your free card chances are slim, and your hand still isn't that strong. the turn call is a must, i am not a fan of the river raise. folding to a 3 bet with your description? probably not able to.

[ QUOTE ]
no offence, but you are a moron fish.


[/ QUOTE ]

d
i
c
k
.

[Buck_65]

[ QUOTE ]
no offence, but you are a moron fish.

-E

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but your grammar sucks and as such you're worthless to society. Get a job and stop being a jackass.

[meow_meow]

Let me guess, villain shows 89.

Anyway, when you get check-raised on this flop, you are ahead of just 2 realistic holdings (and maybe some flush draws), and behind anything else. Feel free to give up right here, especially with sb having already called a bet.

[Buck_65]

It's a nice thought to re-LAG the LAG, but really this is the easiest way to blow your bankroll. If this guy is as overly aggressive as you suggest, you'll need to be patient and punish him with showdownable hands rather than try to bully him off every pot. I'm bet/calling the flop and contemplating folding the turn, but probably reluctantly calling with a gutshot and 2 overs. Just my $.02.

[Subfallen]

[ QUOTE ]
Very helpful. I see how the line you are suggesting is much better, and will work to implement your strategy going forward. Thank you for the constructive post.

No offense, but you are a jopke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe when your entire bankroll is more than 10BB for Eugene you can start throwing "jopke's". Until then, I'd advise you take his assessment to heart.

Just a thought.

[B Dids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Very helpful. I see how the line you are suggesting is much better, and will work to implement your strategy going forward. Thank you for the constructive post.

No offense, but you are a jopke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe when your entire bankroll is more than 10BB for Eugene you can start throwing "jopke's". Until then, I'd advise you take his assessment to heart.

Just a thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

While Eugene is a great player, his response here is pretty damn pointless.

I like the flop play more than I like the turn call, but both feel like pushing it.

[Tom Martell]

"Maybe when your entire bankroll is more than 10BB for Eugene you can start throwing "jopke's"."

Is this supposed to be comprehensible? I have no idea what you are trying to say.. are you suggesting my bank roll is less than 10BB? Try for better english next time.

[Subfallen]

Eugene (hottubboy) is a significant winner at 100/200 and higher.

Edited for perfect clarity - therefore if you are playing 3/6 with 300BB, your entire roll is &lt;10BB for Eugene.

[Tom Martell]

Good for him. That doesn't change the fact that his post is a waste of space and idiotic. Does his bankroll somehow qualify him to make ridiculous posts?

Being good at poker doesnt translate to being good at posting constructive feedback. If you can't post constructive feedback, you shouldn't respond to posts asking for it.

[Subfallen]

So it doesn't bother you that one of the best players on the board described your play as that of a "moron fish?"

Anyways, continue on.

[Tom Martell]

The title of the post was "donkey line". Last time I checked, that means I think I misplayed the hand rather severely.

Therefore his post contributed no possible information. He could have said "fold preflop" or "fold flop", and that would at least provide some level of information.

The fact that you are defending his post as being constructive is just ridiculous.

I think you are making the mistake of mixing up "great player" and "great poster". The fact that anyone plays a higher limit, or wins more, does NOT give them the right to call people names or belittle them. That's not what being a respected poster is about, and it's not what this forum is about. Any great, high limit player who posts like that is a horrifically UNrespected poster IMO. The fact that you could even comprehend a justification for his actions is appalling.

Yes, definitely a donkey line for the most part. There will be times when you get lucky and win, but try not to remember those as success. They will be far and few in between. I personally don't believe in getting into a war with a LAG with only a bare King high. It can be done, but requires such a tremendous read and it so rare that I wouldn't recommend it at all.

If you think there's a chance your King high has some showdown value (which it will sometimes), then get there cheaply. Any other method is usually spewing.

[Tom Martell]

Would you lay down on the turn here? With two overs and a gutshot, you have 10 outs. The tens are probably dirty, but not sure how much to downgrade them.

No. Not if I were dropped there on the turn. Keep in mind that you only have 10 outs under optimum conditions. Sometimes your pair outs won't be good, so you might have 7-8 effective outs -- still worth a call given the pot.

My problem is not so much with the turn. The 3 bet on the flop is bad without that supernatural read I mentioned earlier. A call on the flop is much better.

The river raise is also bad. You will find yourself getting 3 bet by any 8 and very often get called by 2 pair or a set. He will fold almost any hand you beat and call with any hand that beats you.

[Tom Martell]

Agreed. My aggression on the river is low - been looking for missed value opportunities and got carried away on this hand.

[zephed]

[ QUOTE ]
no offence, but you are a moron fish.

-E

[/ QUOTE ]
It'd be good for my game if I heard this from time to time.