Slowplay?

[Jeff W]

Sthief originally commented on this hand sans reads. His comments are in quotes and my response is below.

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker Hold'em (6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Qc, Qs.
2 folds, CO calls, Jeff raises, SB calls, 1 fold, CO calls.

Flop: (7 SB) Js, As, Kd (3 players)
SB checks, CO bets, Jeff calls, SB calls.

would you have folded without the Qs?

Turn: (5 BB) Td (3 players)
SB checks, CO bets, Jeff raises, SB folds, CO folds.

the pot is small and I'd like to keep the other guy in. yeah,
sometimes he checks to you on the river and you lose value, but I
like a slowplay here

[/ QUOTE ]

I think my reads change things here.

CO is maniacal: 80/35 over 120 hands. I guessed that he would pay off very often and there wasn't much value to slowplaying.

SB is a TAG: 21/12/1.9 over 4800 hands. I figured that he'd fold anything but a flush draw.

[Moozh]

Reading it without your notes, my first thought was fold the flop. It just seems very rare for someone to bluff at a pre-flop raiser on a board like that (but I play the passive 3/6). With the spade, I think it's closer. On the turn, I think I have no problem with either line. If you're willing to risk seeing the river, I like going for overcalls on the turn. On the other hand, with a coordinated board of this nature, you'll often get action anyway.

With your reads, everything seems reasonable.

[mperich]

Raise to charge flush draws and two pair hands. Also charge them for their two out split. I very rarely find a reason to slowplay.

-Mike

[stripsqueez]

backdoor flush, gutser is often a playable draw on the flop and i think its auto 3 handed after a pre-flop raise with position

i like a turn call too - i could trot out pros and cons but mostly at the time i'm thinking about how much i love the blank river

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[cartman]

FLOP:
Without the reads, I think the gutshot makes the flop a clear call getting an immediate 8 to 1, regardless of the suit of your Q.

With the reads I think it becomes raise because an 80/35 is very likely to have a raised preflop with an A and somewhat less so but still also likely to have raised preflop with a K. His flop lead could be anything, and causing SB to fold a K or even an A would be a major coup.

TURN:
Without the reads I think it is close but I still raise because I think it is far more likely that I get a call out the original bettor than it is that I get an overcall. This of course changes the river dynamics probably for the worse, but I would still raise.

With the reads I think it is a very clear raise. You give the maniac a chance to really blow off some chips and I think (incorrectly in this case) that he will practically never fold the turn for one more bet.

Cartman

[Chris Daddy Cool]

the flop is a call.

the turn is the interesting spot. the pot is small so you like to encourage overcalling. however if the sb is good he'll figure out his odds anyways and act accoringly and fold the hands you want him to call with anyways. if he's more of the peeling type i can see a call, but if he's tight and is only going to call with a flush draw or a set or whatever, i like the raise.

[GTSamIAm]

Why didn't you raise the flop?

I can't imagine not raising this flop given your reads.

[redbeard]

a flop raise with two broadway overcards seems a bit much to me, but it is definately a call given the gut shot imo. the turn to me seems properly played. i always feel beter raising with two opponents because the first better will almost always (99% or so) call your raise thus giving you one more big bet in the pot. if you don't raise the first checker must call just to get that one more bet. with the nuts like this hand and the board so drawy and full of broadway cards i would have thought there might have been tons of action like a raise from the hero an original checkers cold call and then a possible three bet from the original bettor which i would cap. then of course the board would pair or the flush would come in and i would lose, but that is why i love the game so.