Tipping etiqutte, should I feel bad/cheap?

[TheCroShow]

The setting: Pub/Bar/Grill downtown, been there a bunch of times. Time: 8pm Party: 3

It was relatively quiet when we walked in, 2 tables of people nearby, otherwise a quiet night. We sit down, our waitress gives us menus, we order some drinks and have a look at the menu. What we ordered is besides the point.

We decide what we want, sit there for a solid 10-15 minutes before we flagged her down so we could order. Slightly upsetting, but not a huge deal. She takes our order, walks away and a few minutes later our drinks are finished.

We wait and wait..she approaches our area and checks in with the table next to us and walks away. We fully expected her to check with us so we could order another drink or get refills, etc. Ok maybe she is busy...we do not see her for another 10-15 minutes, we flag her down and ask for more drinks. Getting annoyed at this point...

Our meal takes quite some time to arrive, a lot longer than usual. Food finally arrives and our drinks are empty once again, before we can pipe up she runs away AGAIN. Doesn't pull the whole "Do you need anything else?" schpeal (sp? lol). Ok, maybe we need to be borderline assertive/rude with this girl. (not my thing btw)

We finish our meals and sit there for 15 minutes or so. She pays us a visit and asks if we want our bill, we say yes. She gives us the bill, we figure out how much each person owes, and my buddy had to pay via credit card, and 2 of us by cash. She fucks off for another 10-15 minute break and comes back and says "Oh I'm sorry, I did not realize you had to pay via credit card." Maybe a common error, but the entire experience disgusted me.

I basically felt like Mr. Pink from Reservoir Dogs. I'm used to good/great service, she gave lousy service. The place was not incredibly busy, I've never waited on people before...BUT I've been to many restaurants and have only had service this bad once before. This was only the 2nd time in my life that I did not leave a tip. Well, technically I left around $1.

Sadly I had my minimum 15% tip ready for her because society says so, but it took her so long to come and check with us for change, credit card, etc. It bugs me I should feel guilty for not leaving a tip for lousy service. Our dining experience took a little over 2 hours, that's a lot longer than I'm used to.

Let the flaming begin!

[Ulysses]

If it is not busy, this seems like a perfect situation in which to not leave a tip.

[Crimson]

I've been a waiter, and a busser, and a myriad of other professions that basically survive off tips. I got great tips, and give great tips because i know what its like, but i also give appropriate tips. If a waitress is amazing, ill tip her alot more than 15%. If she is bad, then sorry, no 15% for her. Sometimes ill tip the bussers if they helped alot but the waitress sucked (or the bartender) but dont feel bad.

[InchoateHand]

Nah, you are alright. I made great tips when I put in my mandatory time in the service industry, difference is, I didn't suck.

[tdarko]

personally i leave:

5-10% for terrible service
10-12% for bad service
15-18% for decent service
and then i take care of them for when they go above and beyond.

i really don't think there is any reason to never leave a tip.

now i do think you acted like an idiot for not speaking you mind, you have this backwards man. speak up and educate them, or else how are they going to learn? from their manager who is also trying to pay their way through college? this is the problem, customers being to nice and then not tipping, f that. tell them the problem and let them know how to correct it and let them know what the customer expects and how to make the customer happy and then tip them the minimum for putting up with it.

they will then reap the rewards for this education. i learned this a long time ago. waiters and waitresses usually fall into one of two categories a) college students b) single parents/non-educated parents, so why waste their time and tip. teach them. it might not be their fault they aren't skilled.

[edfurlong]

Pretty much the one thing that pisses me off is when they can't take my money and let me out of the joint.

I work in the business so I am pretty understanding, but awful service is awful service.

[InchoateHand]

As I sat and thought about it, I realized that you should have gone and expressed, clearly and concisely, your concerns about the poor service to the floor manager.

That way, you are more or less guaranteed to get invited back, and or get your meal that night comped. If its the former, you can come back, enjoy excellent service, and leave an appropriate tip.

What you did won't improve the service, even though its justified. People who suck shouldn't be working floors.

[Klepton]

i'll hijack this for a second and recommend no one ever date a waitress. i've tipped 40%+ on almost every meal so far.

[tdarko]

my girlfriend was a bartender for the first 3 months we dated, this is worse /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

You know, with service that bad and her not paying any attention to you, you might consider just leaving without paying. When people dine and dash, if the server hasnt been paying any attention to the table, it comes out of her pocket. Yes, it is stealing, but if you can live with not going back there again, and the service was really that bad....

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
i'll hijack this for a second and recommend no one ever date a waitress. i've tipped 40%+ on almost every meal so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have gone out w/ bartenders and waitresses. The fact that you tip outrageously should be compensated for by getting free drinks/meals at a bunch of bars/restaurants you go to.

[edfurlong]

[ QUOTE ]
You know, with service that bad and her not paying any attention to you, you might consider just leaving without paying. When people dine and dash, if the server hasnt been paying any attention to the table, it comes out of her pocket. Yes, it is stealing, but if you can live with not going back there again, and the service was really that bad....

[/ QUOTE ]

No. No it doesn't.

And even if it did unless she called your mom a whore and punched you in the face it would be way overkill.

[TheCroShow]

this is the first time i received poor service at this place, and do not think it will ever happen again. maybe the girl was having a bad day. i would be surprised if i received bad service there again, and i do plan on going back.

my tipping scale is like this:

standard service: 15%
good service: 16%-19% ish
excellent/top notch: 20%+

i was going to track down the manager but did not feel it was necessary. she was courteous when she waited on us and acted friendly. maybe she was having a bad day, but at my workplace i do not get a bonus for having a bad day!

/rant off

[edfurlong]

My scale is higher, because I'm a huge douchebag.

You do need to keep in mind that if you plan on returning to a joint after not leaving a tip there may be consequences that you don't want to think about.

Nobody in the back of the house will have heard your side of the story. To them you are just some [censored].

[CardSharpCook]

I waited tables once. Sometimes you know you gave someone lousy service and know you don't deserve a good tip, but they still tip you decently anyway. I never understtod that.

[ucfryan]

Pretty cheap scale.

[TheCroShow]

we will see what happens, it's not like i'm a regular there. my friend and brother left a tip, nothing huge..i think they left around 15% for their part.

about my tipping scale, more often than not i leave a 20%+ tip because i appreciate good service. and whenever possible i thank the waiter/waitress for excellent service, and if a manager checks in with me, i will tell him/her as well.

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
i'll hijack this for a second and recommend no one ever date a waitress. i've tipped 40%+ on almost every meal so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

If my girlfriend were a waitress or bar tender, I would tip exactly 0%.
<font color="white"> does this make me a bastard? </font>


-blake

[edfurlong]

I waited tables for a while and saw the same thing.

I was stiffed once at a mothers day thing we had going on where I had ten plus tables at once. The mom came rushing back in to give me cash, which I took and regret now.

I made easily twice what I make now being a shitty server than a good cook.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'll hijack this for a second and recommend no one ever date a waitress. i've tipped 40%+ on almost every meal so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

If my girlfriend were a waitress or bar tender, I would tip exactly 0%.
<font color="white"> does this make me a bastard? </font>


-blake

[/ QUOTE ]

I am pretty sure OP here was talking about when you go on a date with a bartender/waitress, you end up tipping excessively.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'll hijack this for a second and recommend no one ever date a waitress. i've tipped 40%+ on almost every meal so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have gone out w/ bartenders and waitresses. The fact that you tip outrageously should be compensated for by getting free drinks/meals at a bunch of bars/restaurants you go to.

[/ QUOTE ]

A bunch? Wouldn't you only get free stuff if you went to the place she worked?

[edfurlong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'll hijack this for a second and recommend no one ever date a waitress. i've tipped 40%+ on almost every meal so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have gone out w/ bartenders and waitresses. The fact that you tip outrageously should be compensated for by getting free drinks/meals at a bunch of bars/restaurants you go to.

[/ QUOTE ]

A bunch? Wouldn't you only get free stuff if you went to the place she worked?

[/ QUOTE ]

People that work in restaurants tend to know people that work in restaurants. Its actualy a much smaller clique than one would think.

[DasLeben]

Seriously (and I have a tipped server job), I'd tip her like crap too. You're tipping her to do her job, which she obviously isn't doing very well.

What really irritates me is when I'm doing my job, but some other factor is keeping someone's food from coming out quickly. This weekend at the restaurant, we had the worst kitchen crew ever. We have a policy of getting food out within 16 minutes from the time it went into the computer. It wasn't uncommon this weekend for food to take 20-25+ minutes.

Of course, that's not my fault. But, people don't really understand that. I'm still making my rounds, refilling drinks, explaining a little bit of the situation, etc. Basically giving everyone attention the best I can.

But, at the end of dinner, I often found 10-15% tips sitting there. $6 on a $60 tab, $10 on a $75 tab, $2 on a $23 tab (ugh), etc. Again, I'm doing my job, but some people can't understand that. I guess it's possible that they think they're protesting against the restaurant if they don't tip very well, but really, they're just protesting against my bank account. Bastards. &lt;/rant&gt;

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'll hijack this for a second and recommend no one ever date a waitress. i've tipped 40%+ on almost every meal so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have gone out w/ bartenders and waitresses. The fact that you tip outrageously should be compensated for by getting free drinks/meals at a bunch of bars/restaurants you go to.

[/ QUOTE ]

A bunch? Wouldn't you only get free stuff if you went to the place she worked?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much all the bartenders/waitstaff/cooks/nightclub doormen/bouncers/managers/hostesses/etc. in a city all know each other and give each other free stuff.

[hyde]

I spent a little too long in the service business....I always overtip, especially for personality, sincerity and cleavage.

I will ask a waitron who is slow to keep an eye on our cocktails, there are pleasant ways to do this.

If they are jerks, I will ask if we did something to offend them. which we hardly ever do anymore. We have aged gracefully....for some reason this question usually gets their attention.

Lastly, I will always tell the management, I always appreciated knowing about problems when I was managing.

I don’t tip because society says I gotta. I tip when somebody deserves a tip. When somebody really puts forth an effort, they deserve a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, that [censored]’s for the birds. As far as I’m concerned, they’re just doing their job.

[MINETZ]

I hate situations like this, im a generous tipper when service is good and they keep the refils coming. I think you stil need to tip 10 percent, this is based on the fact that these people have lower wages because they are expected to be tipped, the food being slow is not her fault.

[Los Feliz Slim]

I waited tables for a long time, which makes me tip well but also makes me hyper-critical of service. If she wasn't busy and was blowing you off, you absolutely have to complain to HER. This gives her the opportunity to fix things, and you the opportunity to get free stuff. If you complain to her and she does nothing, F her. If she gets you some stuff for free (a meal, drinks, etc), you can justify leaving a tip. In my years of being a food server, I had maybe two or three tables that didn't enjoy my service. I talked to the manager, got them free stuff, and probably got a better tip than I would've in the first place.

[B Dids]

I won't tip here. If I'm feeling extra upset I might even flag down a manager and explain why.

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
this is based on the fact that these people have lower wages because they are expected to be tipped, the food being slow is not her fault.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't feel the need to pay her a living wage. That's between her and management, and she's clearly consented to the wage offered by management. If she can't make enough to live on (constantly getting short tips because she sucks) then she needs to - and will - find another line of work. You know, as long as you don't subsidize her shittiness.

[HopeydaFish]

I'm always reluctant to complain *before* I'm done eating. I don't want them spitting (or worse) in my food in retaliation.

I will leave a very small tip, but I doubt that most servers really take it to heart and know that they did something wrong when they get a small tip. There are exceptions to this rule, of course.

I've gotten so disgusted with service before that I've emailed the manager (when the restaurant had a website) after I've gotten home. I've never really gotten a satisfactory response out of a manager the three times I've emailed. They apologize, but it feels more like a form letter than anything.

[Felix_Nietsche]

Leaving a tiny tip sends a more powerful message than no tip. Leave $0.50... One point most people don't usually realize is:

PEOPLE DO NOT GO TO RESTAURANTS FOR FOOD. THEY HAVE FOOD AT HOME. THEY GO FOR SERVICE.

You did not get the service you paid for therefore the waitress derserves nothing. I went to an upscale cafe once and ordered a oriental chicken salad with the dressing on the side. Instead they put they dressing on the salad. The dressing was disgusting and I couldn't eat it. Our waiter had just dumped the food at our table and left before I realize they did not put the dressing on the side. After 10 minutes, I got tired of waiting for my waiter so I grabbed my salad and walked into the waiter station next to the kitchen. Now keep in mind this was a very nice cafe and they were trying very hard to promote this high end image. So I just start standing in the middle of the waiter area while they are grabbing food from the kitchen and I did not say a word. What happen next was PRICELESS. The looks of confusion and discomfort from the other wait staff was hilarious. After about 45 seconds a very embarassed manager approached me to settle my problem. Then my AWOL waiter came and there was a look of HORROR on his face when he saw me talking to his manager. I returned to my table and after that I got plenty of attention and SERVICE.

Instead of getting mad and irritated, walk up from the table, go to the kitchen and ask the cook if he will take your order for food (this will make you then center of attention, be VERY NICE about it, have a good FAKE friendly face). 95% of the time the manager will come to you to solve your waitress problem. A secondary benefit is your waitress will be deeply embarassed and so you send a powerful message to her without having to be a prick. If you are on a first date, this is a bit trickier because your date may get embarrassed. If it is me, I'd still do it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[The Goober]

[ QUOTE ]
What really irritates me is when I'm doing my job, but some other factor is keeping someone's food from coming out quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think about this a lot. If I get lousy service, how do I know it's not just the kitchen being slow, or maybe the manager didn't hire enough people to work that night? I hate to punish the server for other's mistakes, but I think I'm a little too quick to still tip 20% for what is just plain bad service.

Since you're in the biz, any suggestions on how to tell if it really is the server's fault and a bad tip is appropriate (other than obvious things like rudeness)?

[pokerdirty]

[ QUOTE ]


PEOPLE DO NOT GO TO RESTAURANTS FOR FOOD. THEY HAVE FOOD AT HOME. THEY GO FOR SERVICE.



[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure i go out to eat for food.

[Felix_Nietsche]

Don't ever open your own restaurant.
You will lose all your money.

[pokerdirty]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't ever open your own restaurant.
You will lose all your money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not planning on it. Just saying that I don't always go for service. I've gone to eat places where the service is horrible but the food is delicious or the place is convenient.

[nothumb]

[ QUOTE ]
Instead of getting mad and irritated, walk up from the table, go to the kitchen and ask the cook if he will take your order for food (this will make you then center of attention, be VERY NICE about it, have a good FAKE friendly face). 95% of the time the manager will come to you to solve your waitress problem. A secondary benefit is your waitress will be deeply embarassed and so you send a powerful message to her without having to be a prick. If you are on a first date, this is a bit trickier because your date may get embarrassed. If it is me, I'd still do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awful, awful advice. This would definitely constitute 'being a prick' and I'd wager you've gotten more than your fair share of loogie burgers as a result. The cook doesn't want to talk to you and he knows you're full of it with your big fake smile. People like you always get the worst possible service because everyone can tell you're going to leave a pitiful tip for whatever reason you feel like anyway.

Generally the advice in this thread is pretty good. If it's a place I intend to go back to often, I'll speak with the waitress directly or, if I know the girl doesn't work that much, leave a 12% tip or so. If I'm never going back, or don't care, I would go for about 5% here and not say anything.

Typically you can prevent problems like this by saying something simple like, "A round of [your beer here], and keep 'em coming please." If it's been slow to that point you can say the same when the food comes.

This kind of poor treatment happens to me very rarely because I try to establish a rapport early on. Try it, works wonders.

NT

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'll hijack this for a second and recommend no one ever date a waitress. i've tipped 40%+ on almost every meal so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

If my girlfriend were a waitress or bar tender, I would tip exactly 0%.
<font color="white"> does this make me a bastard? </font>


-blake

[/ QUOTE ]

I am pretty sure OP here was talking about when you go on a date with a bartender/waitress, you end up tipping excessively.

[/ QUOTE ]

The same thing is true if you date a stripper.

[Felix_Nietsche]

This would definitely constitute 'being a prick'
************************************************** ******
It is true that I'm a prick and I see no reason to apologize for it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif


People like you always get the worst possible service because everyone can tell you're going to leave a pitiful tip for whatever reason you feel like anyway.
************************************************** ******
LOL.......actually I almost always get very good service. Being from Texas, I find the wait staff to be superior than I find in most states. And I am not alone in this opinion. When I lived in Colorado, me and my fellow Texans were pleasantly suprised whenever we got good service at restaurants. For some reason wait staff in that state seems to lack the work ethic that I was use to in Texas. My tips vary from 10% for subpar service to 20% for very good service. BOTTOM LINE: You don't know what your talking about.....as usual.

[TheCroShow]

[ QUOTE ]
This would definitely constitute 'being a prick'
************************************************** ******
It is true that I'm a prick and I see no reason to apologize for it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif


People like you always get the worst possible service because everyone can tell you're going to leave a pitiful tip for whatever reason you feel like anyway.
************************************************** ******
LOL.......actually I almost always get very good service. Being from Texas, I find the wait staff to be superior than I find in most states. And I am not alone in this opinion. When I lived in Colorado, me and my fellow Texans were pleasantly suprised whenever we got good service at restaurants. For some reason wait staff in that state seems to lack the work ethic that I was use to in Texas. My tips vary from 10% for subpar service to 20% for very good service. BOTTOM LINE: You don't know what your talking about.....as usual.

[/ QUOTE ]

you raise a good point. i just moved from the mid-west, lived in oklahoma and had family in texas. so the times we went out for dinner the service was amazing. got our menus right away, got our drinks right away, the instant we put our menus down our order was taken, drinks were refilled constantly, food came out, waiter/waitress took care of us and bam..food finished, would you like anything else? nope...maybe i took that service for granted heh

[Jules22]

[ QUOTE ]
If it is not busy, this seems like a perfect situation in which to not leave a tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:
Instead of getting mad and irritated, walk up from the table, go to the kitchen and ask the cook if he will take your order for food (this will make you then center of attention, be VERY NICE about it, have a good FAKE friendly face). 95% of the time the manager will come to you to solve your waitress problem. A secondary benefit is your waitress will be deeply embarassed and so you send a powerful message to her without having to be a prick. If you are on a first date, this is a bit trickier because your date may get embarrassed. If it is me, I'd still do it.



Awful, awful advice. This would definitely constitute 'being a prick' and I'd wager you've gotten more than your fair share of loogie burgers as a result. The cook doesn't want to talk to you and he knows you're full of it with your big fake smile. People like you always get the worst possible service because everyone can tell you're going to leave a pitiful tip for whatever reason you feel like anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't really true. As a cook, we love it when the waitstaff screws up and drama happens. A customer coming back into the kitchen would be priceless. Sure, we'd pretend to be pissed off and rant about how Mandy shouldn't be allowed to wait tables, but we would absolutely love it and we'd be telling the story for weeks. As for loogie burgers, I've worked in this industry for 4 years and have yet to have seen one made. A friend of mine admitted to making one once, but then said she'd felt horrible after and never did it again. The stories I hear come more from waitstaff about other waitstaff contaminating the food. Cooks are surprisingly prideful of their product.

[Jules22]

[ QUOTE ]
I won't tip here. If I'm feeling extra upset I might even flag down a manager and explain why.

[/ QUOTE ]

seems awfully nitty

[Cosimo]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess it's possible that they think they're protesting against the restaurant if they don't tip very well, but really, they're just protesting against my bank account. Bastards. &lt;/rant&gt;

[/ QUOTE ]

They are protesting against the restaurant. If the kitchen crew can't keep up, the bad tippers are encouraging you to work someplace else. Sure, there's already a lot of turnover among servers, but it's still a hassle for the owners and managers. Hiring people, dealing with new hires that don't know the join well, paperwork, and unfilled shifts all cause management grief.

By continuing to work at a restaurant where the line cooks can't do their job well, you are sanctioning their bad performance. You are complicit in their evil acts. You are giving it your OK by staying there. It doesn't really matter if you say "I'm doing this under protest" cuz you're still doing it, so what does management care?

[Felix_Nietsche]

This isn't really true. As a cook, we love it when the waitstaff screws up and drama happens. A customer coming back into the kitchen would be priceless. Sure, we'd pretend to be pissed off and rant about how Mandy shouldn't be allowed to wait tables, but we would absolutely love it and we'd be telling the story for weeks. As for loogie burgers, I've worked in this industry for 4 years and have yet to have seen one made. A friend of mine admitted to making one once, but then said she'd felt horrible after and never did it again. The stories I hear come more from waitstaff about other waitstaff contaminating the food. Cooks are surprisingly prideful of their product.
************************************************** *******
LOL..........Of course your right.
nothumb was just expressing WISHFUL THINKING. I suppose he would derive pleasure from thinking people spit in my food.

As for having terrible service where I would actually get up and go into the employee area this would be a very rare occurence. Say once per 5 years. I rarely get service that bad so I rarely get to have the fun of embarassing a bad waitress. /images/graemlins/frown.gif