Gephart and Superlatives

In reference to those in service abroad, Dick Gephart said they are "They're fighting for the greatest country that's ever existed on earth, the United States of America".


I am an American but this really gets my goat. What is he trying to accomplish by setting up this enormous hierarchy of nations? Maybe I am getting huffy about meaningless political speechmaking once again but I think that people need to think about the ramifications of their words. Are we really greater than countries that provide decent wages and housing for their citizens, and have libertarian views on people's personal lives? America currently has a giant and widening gap between rich and poor and has a higher percentage of its citizens in prison than anyone else. Is that so great? Greater than any other country has ever done in the history of the world?


If I lived in Canada, UK, Finland, Sweden, Denmark or many other places I would be thoroughly offended at this statement. As an American I am instead embarrassed at the attitude of those that represent my country to the rest of the world. But hey, Gephart says their not as great as us anyway, so maybe I shouldn't care. Sheesh.


KJS

America is the greatest country on earth. We are more civilized and have a richer culture than any other developed country and most, if not all of the rest of world. I don't know much about history so I won't comment about past societies.


"Are we really greater than countries that provide decent wages and housing for their citizens, and have libertarian views on people's personal lives? America currently has a giant and widening gap between rich and poor and has a higher percentage of its citizens in prison than anyone else."


1. Wages and Housing - In most areas of the US wages are decent and housing is affordable. Areas like Seattle and San Francisco are exceptions but I'm not sure there is a good solution to the problem. In any event these problems were created more by local zoning ordinances than anything else.


2. Libertarian Views about personal lives - Americans have very libertarian views about personal behavior. You just wouldn't believe it from watching TV or reading incendiary newspaper columns by ultra-conservative pundits. But that's not the real world so who cares? I've traveled abroad extensively and talked to many of the "little people". The only country where people truely seemed to not give a shit about other people's business was France.


3. Gap between Rich and Poor - Two points. First, you can have a system that is very safe but allows for very little mobility in your level of income. You can also have a system that is a bit more risky but also gives you a chance for the "big score". Which system is better is open for debate. I kind of like our system, and I'm not rich and come from a poor family. Second, poor people in the US, as a whole, are not that bad off from a material standpoint.


4. Prison population - I agree this is a problem. We need to do something about it.

Boris,


I cannot fathom measuring levels of civilization and/or richness of culture. These are two words that do not denote measurable things, IMO. Who is more civilized, France or Belgium? How does one know? Who culture is richer, Mexico's or Cuba's? How does one know?


2. I meant the government, not the citizenry. To me a country that does not routinely ignore search and seizure laws, throw its citizens in jail, take away their voting rights, etc. for small amounts of marijuana (for example) is greater in some way than the U.S. who has a collosal human rights failure like the War on Drugs.


KJS

If I did believe in the ability to measure levels of civilized behavior American would certain not be high on the list due to its murder rates and the violent tendencies in our popular culture. People here kill each other over traffic disputes and tennis shoes, for god sakes. Don't find that kind of civilized behavior in many countries worldwide.


KJS

"We are more civilized and have a richer culture than any other developed country and most, if not all of the rest of world"


What do you base this statement on? How do you consider yourself more civilized and with a richer culture than, for example, Canada? Have you seen UN studies on standard of living in countries?


"In most areas of the US wages are decent and housing is affordable"


More so than Canada?


"Americans have very libertarian views about personal behavior"


Perhaps in general, but the possible minority acts in a much more vocal fashion than say, the right wing political groups of, for example, Canada.


"Poor people in the US, as a whole, are not that bad off from a material standpoint."


You don't have a correct understanding of the word "poor" if you believe this.


The USA has its great points, but it certainly has enough shortcomings that you cannot simply declare it the greatest ever of all time. Ask Canadian students who go abroad and have to ensure that they put Canadian flag patches on their backpacks so they won't be treated badly by the locals.


I wouldn't live anywhere but Canada (maybe you guessed by now).

Well Dave I have admit that Canada is the one country that may in fact be a better place to live than the US. But I have lived here for most of my life so I do have a bias. Besides, admitting that Canada is a better place than the US would be like admitting that my little brother is cooler than me:)


ps - about the flag on your backpack, the only places where you might be treated worse cuz you're an american are in Western European countries. I suspect it's jealousy

I don't know what your trying to say here. Europe, Asia, Africa, many countries on all of those continents have had regular incidences of mass human slaughter within the past hundred years. The US murder rate is a drop in the ocean compared to what goes on elsewhere.

Bush stole his fire. He had nowhere to go with his left wing political tripe. The best he could do was, agree with W. or make himself look like a bigger fool than he is.You should know DICKHEAD Gephart, that I for one don't appreciate you giving my president a bad time, while he's trying to make this country a moral stomping ground*after what Cli(n)ton did to it>!Theres a war going down here. When that happens, you need to remember why you got sent to Washington? Right

I am saying the US is a very violent society, much more violent than elsewhere. Inasmuch as killing someone is considered uncivilized, this might detract from someone saying the US is the most civilized country. Here are the murder rates per capita:


Country Homicide Rate per Capita

South Africa 75.30

Colombia 64.60

Estonia 28.21

Brazil 19.04

Mexico 17.58

Philippines 16.20

Taiwan 8.12

N. Ireland 6.09

UNITED STATES 5.70

Argentina 4.51

Hungary 3.53

Finland 3.24

Portugal 2.98

Mauritius 2.35

Israel 2.32

Italy 2.25

Scotland 2.24

Canada 2.16

Slovenia 2.01

Australia 1.86

Singapore 1.71

South Korea 1.62

New Zealand 1.47

Belgium 1.41

England/Wales4 1.41

Switzerland5 1.32

Sweden 1.30

Denmark 1.21

Austria 1.17

Germany 1.17

Greece 1.14

France 1.12

Netherlands 1.11

Kuwait 1.01

Norway 0.97

Spain 0.95

Japan 0.62

Ireland 0.62


KJS

I'm an immigrant who came over at the age of one. All my family has done fairly well dispite getting here with nothing.


The gap between the rich and poor does not bother me much. I was almost 40 before I earned 10 k per yr. by choice. But I was able to fish 100-300 days per yr. I was 46 before I went to work full time in a mind numbing job. But hey thats my choice. I feel America offers great opportunities. Ifeel that it is a great country but not without some faults.


I agree that there are too many in prision, mostly drug users. If I would have been unlucky I may have found myself there also in the 60s and 70s.

During the latter part of the 60s when I was in the military I felt I was treated better in Canada the in the US. I don't know if that would be true today.

Ed


I think America is great too. "Greatest country that's ever existed on earth" though. That seems arrogant, unprovable and downright silly to me.


KJS

As an Estonian I'm shocked to see my homeland ranked #3.

Standard political talk. Our leaders have always professed to believe that we have been chosen to lead the world from darkness into light. The last great hope of mankind. Meaningless political speechmaking indeed.

WWI, WWII, Stalin, Milosevich and co., Albania, Mao-Tse Tung, Rwanda, Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot... When can I stop?


All not made in the USA. Sure we have high murder rate, but I don't see how you can say the US has a propensity for violence compared to the rest of the world.