The elusive fold aces preflop situation:Does it exist and was this it?

Ok here's the situation. It's a UB $100+9 TEC(Tournament entry chip) Sit'nGo. 1 TEC = $100+9 tournament entry value. 1st pays 5 TEC's and $60. Second pays 3 TEC's and $30, and 3rd gets 1 TEC and $10.

There are four players.
Blinds are at $200/$400 with 4 minutes to go.

Unimportant is UTG
Villain#1 is on the button and second to act with about $5k
Villain#2 is SB with around $4k
Hero is the short stack around $3200 after posting the BB.
Hero is holding the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Action:

Unimportant folds.
Villain #1 goes all in.
Villain #2 calls.
Hero: ?

So do I actually fold aces here guaranteed a payout as long as they don't split, or what?

As it just so happens this hand also ended up proving what a sick sense of humor the poker gods can have, but i'll post why later. One of those really rare situations that proves the gods are out there.... *peers around*

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/images/graemlins/diamond.gif It's ALL about hourly rate. /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

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call. you have the best hand preflop, i don't know why you wouldn't.

[Milky]

I think with the payout structures being how they are, I'd call the all-in. If you win, you'll be in a good place to win the whole thing which is a lot better than getting third if you fold here and get blinded away.

I think the only situation where you would want to fold in this spot is if you were winning a buy-in to a big tourney and all 3 spots payed the same thing. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong though /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[lorinda]

The only way that you could really consider a fold here would be if this was the end of a freeroll or $1 MTT or something and the experience of playing a $100 tourney was going to be worth more to you than the money given up by folding.

This is actually more of a call than normal because the structure is a little more top heavy than 50-30-20

Lori

[splashpot]

Maybe if top 3 got the same prize, only then would I fold.

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So do I actually fold aces here guaranteed a payout as long as they don't split, or what?


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Villian #1, if he lost, could still come back. Maybe you could make an argument if UTG was also all in, but even then I would probably still revel in the opportunity to get all my chips in the middle preflop with AA.

EDIT:

What could they logically be all in with?

In a three way pot AA holds up remarkably well against any likely hands with which Villains would push or call, even in worst case scenarios:

vs. KK and AKs - 78%
vs. QQ and KJs - 68%
vs. JTs and 55 - 62%

Looks like everyone agrees, and I do as well in fact, I think the key as one poster mentioned would be if all three places paid the same then it would be a fold. And as for the poker gods, they decided to have some fun and flung out

8 K 3

In this situation on UB all hands are shown up at this point so I see:

Villain#1 has 88
Villain#2 has KK
Hero declares "that's hilarious" just as the turn comes
and it's another 8! Now of course i'm drawing dead, so I give a hearty laugh at the guy with KK and as the final taunt, the gods thumb their nose at me and toss me a bullet on the river (i'm pretty sure one of them wiped his ass with it first). As Nelson would say: "Hah-ha!".

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Would have been so sweet to hold up too as I had been so short stacked 10 hands before the other player had already said 'good game' to me lol.


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"Karma, a rush, the perfect spot, the perfect hand, and to top it all off, lady luck was working on her knees for me that night."

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[curtains]

Where the hell is citanul when you need him?

[The Student]

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Maybe if top 3 got the same prize, only then would I fold.

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exactly. this is the case in the $33 UB TEC SNGs, where the last 3 get 1 TEC each and 4-10 get nothing (in which case a fold would be okay), but since there is a huge discrepancy in the payouts for your tourney, this is an automatic call. you've got to play for 1st here, especially since it's worth so much more than 3rd.

ts-

[Nicholasp27]

no, this is not a fold

the pre-flop aa fold is only if the top places have the same payout...or maybe if 1st paid 20k, 2nd paid 19.5k, 3rd paid 19k, 4th paid 0...

but this situation gains u $50 and 9 more tcs for first...and 20+2tec for 2nd over 3rd...

call with the best starting hand in poker and thank the dealer for that hand