Party 30+3 back to back huge laydowns

[michw]

First my read. ILUVPP may or may not be a 2+2er, but he's very solid from what I've seen. He also had some sick poker propehcy stats last time I checked them. He's just got to have a monster to make these reraises. Anyone else lay these hands down?

Hand #1

NL Texas Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: beekerks ( $625 )
Seat 2: michw ( $1635 )
Seat 3: huadiawgf ( $880 )
Seat 4: ILUVPP ( $1185 )
Seat 5: welshgold ( $1050 )
Seat 6: sunstroke ( $915 )
Seat 7: TonyNoBrain ( $885 )
Seat 9: jjeivfatz ( $825 )
Trny:16065654 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to michw [ Ks Kc ]
TonyNoBrain folds.
jjeivfatz raises [75]
beekerks folds.
michw raises [235].
huadiawgf folds.
ILUVPP raises [450].
welshgold folds.
sunstroke folds.
jjeivfatz is all-In [750]
michw folds.

I honestly thought his range of hands here were AA-KK...maybe QQ should also be included.

Hand #2 (about 5 hands later).

NL Texas Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: beekerks ( $530 )
Seat 2: michw ( $1345 )
Seat 3: huadiawgf ( $830 )
Seat 4: ILUVPP ( $2325 )
Seat 5: welshgold ( $345 )
Seat 6: sunstroke ( $870 )
Seat 7: TonyNoBrain ( $1755 )
Trny:16065654 Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to michw [ Ad Qs ]
welshgold folds.
sunstroke folds.
TonyNoBrain folds.
beekerks is all-In [530]
michw calls [530].
huadiawgf folds.
ILUVPP raises [1350].
michw folds.

Here I think his range of hands can be slightly expanded, 10's-AA, AK, and maybe AQ. Based on the pot size and this range of hands, laying AQ may have been a terrible play, I haven't crunched the #'s. Just curious what other people would have done. Putting in over 1/3 of my stack and then folding just makes me sick, but it left me enough chips to still play with.

[pergesu]

The first one I don't think is obvious that you're up against AA, but that's becaue I see that action with AK and JJ all the time. So I just push over the top and hope I'm up against an underpair and a single ace.

The second one...what are you doing calling off 40% of your stack with AQ in the first place? You either need to push over the isolate or fold. I'd lean towards folding, given that you have 26 BB and really only want to be in this position if you have him dominated, which isn't terribly likely.

The first one is an instacall to me, and it's not even close. I think you're being too obsessed with making a "monster laydown". Maybe I'm just a newbie...

[suited_ace]

The first one is an insta-call. If you wanna play the second one, then push too.

Both shithouse folds.

Hand 1, instacall. Even ZeeJustin says he has never laid down KK preflop, from the 1000s of SnGs he has played at $215. You aren't better than him.

Hand 2 if you are going to fold that, fold to the 10BB raise, don't piss away 35% of your stack like that. AQ is overrated, should have folded to the first all in. Don't fold it when you are getting 3-1, if you are going to make the inital mistake of cold calling a 10BB raise with AQ. Even up against KK and JJ you have about a 1-3 chance to win here. Against JJ and AT, you have a 1-2 chance.

The mistake of calling the first all in with AQ the far worse mistake though.

[jeffraider]

The first one I'd just close my eyes and call and the second one you're making a huge laydown after you make a huge donk call. The second one is a clear indication that you probably shouldn't ever try to make a huge laydown if making that call is standard for you.

[michw]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1, instacall. Even ZeeJustin says he has never laid down KK preflop, from the 1000s of SnGs he has played at $215. You aren't better than him

[/ QUOTE ]

This was the first time I've ever laid down KK preflop and I don't plan to make a habit of it. But I was almost positive he had AA or KK. Firstly, I had several notes that this guy was probably a 2+2er and plays similarly to the style advocated by most of the good players that post here. Secondly, look at the size of the re-re-raise. Doesn't this scream AA or KK? How many good players make a re-re-raise like this without aces or kings? That's the key, this guy was a known good player. If it's an unknown player I obviously push. If anyone makes this same re-re-raise w/o aces or kings I'd like to hear from you. Here's the results of the 1st hand.

michw folds.
ILUVPP calls [375].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9c, 6s, 5h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qd ]
** Dealing River ** [ 7s ]
ILUVPP shows [ Ah, Ac ] a pair of aces.
jjeivfatz shows [ Kd, Ad ] high card ace.
ILUVPP wins 1930 chips from the main pot with a pair of aces.
jjeivfatz finished in eighth place.

So...is this still a terrible fold, or can one "confidently" put a known good 30+3 player on KK or AA given the re-re-raise. I don't want to be patting myself on the back for this fold when it's not warranted.

[michw]

[ QUOTE ]
The second one is a clear indication that you probably shouldn't ever try to make a huge laydown if making that call is standard for you

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a standard call. But spontaneously calling off large portions of my stack witout completely thinking the situation through is a leak I'm working on.

[stillbr]

[ QUOTE ]
The first one is an insta-call. If you wanna play the second one, then push too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never fold KK preflop. Read HoH, even Harrington says he can't lay down KK preflop. Are you saying you are better than Harrington here?

[bawcerelli]

Harrington talks about an unknown player. Here OP had plenty of notes and indications that he was up against AA. i give him a pat on the back for going with his gut instead of ignoring it and going all in then saying damn i knew he had aces.