$109 - Call my push with 3s?

[MegaBet]

NL Texas Hold'em $100 Buy-in + $9 Entry Fee Trny:16064546 Level:9 Blinds(250/500) - Monday, September 26, 03:07:53 EDT 2005
Table Table 44803 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: bronc64 ( $2560 )
Seat 4: HERO ( $2305 )
Seat 5: BayWarrior ( $2195 )
Seat 10: SickValueBet ( $2940 )
Trny:16064546 Level:9
Blinds(250/500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ As Js ]
bronc64 folds.
HERO is all-In [2305]
BayWarrior folds.
SickValueBet calls [1805].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9d, 3d, 4h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qh ]
** Dealing River ** [ Jd ]
SickValueBet shows [ 3h, 3c ] three of a kind, threes.
HERO shows [ As, Js ] a pair of jacks.
SickValueBet wins 4860 chips from the main pot with three of a kind, threes.
HERO finished in fourth place.

We are in push/fold mode with the stacks pretty even on the bubble. I have pushed 4 times without being called, and showing AK, AQ, pocket 7s and pocket 10s to gain respect. I like my push, but do you call with 3s in this situation?

[adanthar]

Yes, and it's not really all that close.

ps: he'll be along to post soon

[MegaBet]

Oh yeah? Who is he?

If this is correct to call then this may be a leak in my game. I just wanted to check with you guys. I personally don't like it because of the even chip stacks. Why is this not even close, considering my perceived tight pushing standards?

EDIT: I'd appreciate it if my screen name isn't posted /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Johan]

Ehm I dunno, just started playing the SNG's but isn't this call clearly -EV for him? Why try to double up at the ((problaby)50% (!) ) Chance of busting out here?

Johan

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
Ehm I dunno, just started playing the SNG's but isn't this call clearly -EV for him? Why try to double up at the ((problaby)50% (!) ) Chance of busting out here?

Johan

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, exactly my thoughts. But if someone can convince me otherwise, I'm open to it.

[Mr_J]

"Why try to double up at the ((problaby)50% (!) ) Chance of busting out here?"

Because it's 1800 to call with 3000 in the pot. If he folds he's got 3.5bb.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
"Why try to double up at the ((problaby)50% (!) ) Chance of busting out here?"

Because it's 1800 to call with 3000 in the pot. If he folds he's got 3.5bb.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not desperate for chips. In fact, he's the chip leader...just.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
"Why try to double up at the ((problaby)50% (!) ) Chance of busting out here?"

Because it's 1800 to call with 3000 in the pot. If he folds he's got 3.5bb.

[/ QUOTE ]

is that the only reason why it's not even close?

[Johan]

@Mr_J

Seems to me that there will be better opportunities coming then calling a push on the bubble, even with this low stack (that all players at the table have).

If his stack was even lower (way lower then now), the call might be justified...

(again, not sure, just trying to throw some common sense in)

Johan

[curtains]

Don't believe the hype, this is probably a fold against most opponents. This is what SNGPT is for, people should use it /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
"Why try to double up at the ((problaby)50% (!) ) Chance of busting out here?"

Because it's 1800 to call with 3000 in the pot. If he folds he's got 3.5bb.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also if he folds he has about 5 BBs

[Mr_J]

You all seemed to missed the bit where I thought BB had 3.5bb after posting.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't believe the hype, this is probably a fold against most opponents. This is what SNGPT is for, people should use it /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I used it, and with my perceived range, it's a fold. However, I wanted some human input as well to see what people would do in the "real world" /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
You all seemed to missed the bit where I thought BB had 3.5bb after posting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cmon man, I dont miss anything! Look up

[FatalError]

i'm getting laid 18 to 28 to call here, be the chipleader by a ton 3 handed, the blinds are huge, my opponents are all competant

next time you post a hand why don't you give people the other environmental factors, folding here makes me about 20% to bust out, calling here makes me about 50% to bust out, but if i fold here 1st or 2nd are not my most likely finishes

oh, this was the 4th hand in a row he'd pushed my BB, i had decided he was pushing any 2 at this blind level

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm getting laid 18 to 28 to call here, be the chipleader by a ton 3 handed, the blinds are huge, my opponents are all competant

next time you post a hand why don't you give people the other environmental factors, folding here makes me about 20% to bust out, calling here makes me about 50% to bust out, but if i fold here 1st or 2nd are not my most likely finishes

oh, this was the 4th hand in a row he'd pushed my BB, i had decided he was pushing any 2 at this blind level

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with these little pairs is they are the type of hand that gains the absolute least when up against any 2/wide pushing ranges. I really prefer folding here, although I dont have SNGPA handy at the moment. I know that its only very marginally +EV to call when your opponent pushes 55% of hands, which is quite a large number of hands.

If you really think hes pushing close to any 2 its probably call, but a very close one. You have to be pretty confident however.

It's only .+2% when the button pushes with 75% of hands, and +.3% when they push with 80%.

Meanwhile its -.3% when they push with 40% of hands. Its still -EV when they push with as many as the top 58% of hands, which include the following:

22+,A2+,K2+,Q2+,J6o+,J2s+,T7o+,T6s+,98o,97s+,87s. Sorry to say I feel like a lot of players would fold plenty of these hands, even those that have seemed relatively aggressive in the past.


I would fold because I would prefer to use my skills elsewhere and because I doubt Id be confident enough to assume they are pushing any 2 in this spot. Against an any 2 push you are +1% EV.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm getting laid 18 to 28 to call here, be the chipleader by a ton 3 handed, the blinds are huge, my opponents are all competant

next time you post a hand why don't you give people the other environmental factors, folding here makes me about 20% to bust out, calling here makes me about 50% to bust out, but if i fold here 1st or 2nd are not my most likely finishes

oh, this was the 4th hand in a row he'd pushed my BB, i had decided he was pushing any 2 at this blind level

[/ QUOTE ]

I did put the environmental factors in my post. From my opening post:

[ QUOTE ]
I have pushed 4 times without being called, and showing AK, AQ, pocket 7s and pocket 10s to gain respect.

[/ QUOTE ]

How'd you come to the conclusion I was pushing any 2? You were either multi-tabling and missed it (bad), or blind.

[MegaBet]

Again, I put the hands I was pushing with in my opening post, which makes this a clear fold.

Thanks curtains, I thought I was going crazy for a second!

He likes to make calls when the blinds get high. Last night he made 3 or 4 questionable calls against me, unfortuately he was ahead every time.
Calling with 33 isnt a big mistake and it may keep regulars from pushing u around in the future

[raptor517]

i duno i fold about 80% of the time here. if its against a 2+2er though, i might call to piss em off. curtains is very much on the right track here, but i wont fault people TOO much for calling. i dont like calling too much though. holla

[citanul]

i'm not sure that it's good form to post a hand like this with villain's screen name if you know who villain is from 2+2, though what do i know.

most likely the reason he put you on something close to any two, if not any two, is because he knows who you are and if you pushed 4 straight times at his blind, and happened to have a big hand (shown) each time, that's not going to convince anyone that you are only pushing monsters. anyone who has played with you a fair number of times is going to know who you are and what you're doing.

citanul

[curtains]

Not sure if he knew he was a 2+2er

[FatalError]

i knew that all 3 of my opponents were playing nearly perfect SnG strategy, nobody was making dumb calls, nobody was folding too much, thats why i decided calling wasn't very -EV

[Ogre]

i dont like it one bit

Tough call...then again I made almost the same player earlier with p 9's when the BB was pushing 4 handed, because he'd been pushing an awful lot. I got beat though, he had AK and caught AK on the flop.

[Pudge714]

I don't have sng power tools so I am not positive, but I think folding and pushing almost any 2 from the sb is a better play than calling with threes.

[MegaBet]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm not sure that it's good form to post a hand like this with villain's screen name if you know who villain is from 2+2, though what do i know.


[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't know he was a 2+2er until Adanthar made his reply...