wild live plo8 hand

[econ_tim]

this is from a live 4-handed mixed game

blinds were $.25/$.5 and average stack was around $100

I think I was in the SB, but I'm not sure.

I have 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Preflop action is call, call, complete, call

Flop is Q /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I check, BB checks, CO checks, Button bets $2, I call, BB folds, CO calls.

Turn is 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I check, CO checks, Button bets $8, I call, CO raises to $40, Button raises all-in, I call ...

Both Button and CO cover me, my stack is about $80. What odds do you want to call here? You can assume that CO will call all-in since he will be getting great odds.

From preflop action I know no-one has A2 and probably no A3, so they are probably both on high hands with maybe a crappy emergency low draw.

[DyessMan89]

You played this hand terribly. And why are you in pre-flop with 53J9, one of the worst hands possible?

[econ_tim]

I guess I left out of my OP that this was a very LAG 4-handed game. I would limp with almost any hand from the SB.

If you think I played it terribly, I'd like to here why. What hands do you put others on? What are my odds, etc.

[DyessMan89]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I left out of my OP that this was a very LAG 4-handed game. I would limp with almost any hand from the SB.

If you think I played it terribly, I'd like to here why. What hands do you put others on? What are my odds, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, let me ask you ... what are you trying to make with 53J9? Yes, you're in the small blind, but I dont think this hand is worth .01, whether its 1 handed or 10,478 handed. Your 53 will rarley win the low, and will often turn a vunerable nut or 2nd nut hand. Also, when you do turn your hand with the 53, a low will always be possible, in which you will only get 1/2 the pot. Your J9c is your best combo, and even that will turn hands that are very vunerable and ones you shouldnt be excited with. Your other combos arent worth mentioning. Yes, I know, theres only 4 players, and since you left that out I exaggerated how bad your play was, but in this situation, I think its best to get out of the hand early before getting into further trouble.

BTW, knowing what position you were in is extremley important. Also, I havent looked too much on your postflop play, but at first glance, it seems alright.

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think this hand is worth .01, whether its 1 handed or 10,478 handed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never fold my SB 1-handed. I rarely play 10,478-handed as it is a nut peddlers game and boring.

[TGoldman]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I havent looked too much on your postflop play, but at first glance, it seems alright.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, you're ripping the OP for a pre-flop "mistake" of $0.25 and then admit to not having spent much thought on his postflop play which is the decision for his entire stack.

[econ_tim]

I just talked with someone from the game last night who refresehed my memory. (It was very late when I typed the original post, but now my actions my more sense.) Here is the correct action:

[ QUOTE ]
this is from a live 4-handed mixed game

blinds were $.25/$.5 and average stack was around $100

My stack around $75
SB's stack around $100
Button's stack around $65

I am BB.

I have 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Preflop action is call, call, complete, call

Flop is Q /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB checks, I checks, CO checks, Button bets $2, everyone calls.

Turn is 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB bets $10, I call, CO folds, Button raises to $50, SB moves all-in (approximately $50 more), I call all-in

What odds do you want to call here? You can assume that CO will call all-in since he will be getting great odds.

From preflop action I know no-one has A2 and probably no A3, so they are probably both on high hands with maybe a crappy emergency low draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

[akishore]

just to clarify...

pot going into flop: $2 (button bets pot at $2)
pot going into turn: $10 (SB leads out for pot at $10)
pot after Button's call: $40 (Button repots it for $40 more, or $50 straight)

assuming everyone puts in the $40 more from Button's turn raise, Button has $15ish left, Hero/OP has $25ish left, and SB has both covered.

if we assume Button will call his remaining $15, the specific odds that Hero/OP is getting is:

($120 + $15 + $25) -to- ($40 + $25)
=
$160-to-$65
= about 2.5-to-1

aseem

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, I havent looked too much on your postflop play, but at first glance, it seems alright.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, you're ripping the OP for a pre-flop "mistake" of $0.25 and then admit to not having spent much thought on his postflop play which is the decision for his entire stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

His post flop play is completely irrelevant if he can't fold J953 preflop for any bet whatsoever. It's a terrible hand that just asks to get in all sorts of trouble. This is why you fold it preflop. So you can't get into the habit of "peeling another card"

[econ_tim]

I made a mistake in the OP. I was actually in the BB, so I didn't have to pay anything to see the flop. But even if I was in the SB I might have called just because this was a crazy game with friends. Does anyone have anything to say about postflop, which is more interesting?

[DyessMan89]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, I havent looked too much on your postflop play, but at first glance, it seems alright.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, you're ripping the OP for a pre-flop "mistake" of $0.25 and then admit to not having spent much thought on his postflop play which is the decision for his entire stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

His post flop play is completely irrelevant if he can't fold J953 preflop for any bet whatsoever. It's a terrible hand that just asks to get in all sorts of trouble. This is why you fold it preflop. So you can't get into the habit of "peeling another card"

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you, Ribbo.

And since the OP was in the BB, he can disregard the pre-flop request I gave. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Wintermute]

First, I don't see a problem with completing from the SB with this hand in a 4-handed game occasionally. You just have to exercise discipline postflop when marginal boards come.

The main problem with the postflop action is that the spades kill several of your potential outs. Also, having an non-spade 8 fall will only guarantee you half the pot anyway (I don't buy your claim that you know nobody has A3), and a non-spade K won't give you the nut straight. If you make the turn a 4 of clubs, then I might be more willing to go to war given that this sounds like a game where people aren't necessarily trying to play optimally... but with this board I would fold--if you count up outs you'll be able to convince yourself it's -EV.

[Spladle Master]

Fold pre-flop, fold flop, fold turn.

[GooperMC]

At the risk of sounding like Sluggo fold the flop, fold the turn.

On the flop:
You are drawing to the bottom end of the str8 which is almost never a good idea in O8. Here is why, there are only 4 cards in the deck that allow you to handle heavy action. Of those 4 cards all of them put a low draw out and 3 of them put a flush draw out. This seems like a cut and dry fold.

On the turn:
You have:
1) 3 outs that make a non nut str8 w/ no low w/ no flush ([Kc] [Kd] [Kh])
2) 1 out that makes a non nut str8 w/ a flush ([Ks])
3) 6 outs for a nut str8 w/ a low w/ no flush ([8h] [8c] [8d] [6h] [6c] [6d])
4) 3 outs for the best str8 w/ a low w/ a flush ([8s] [6s], [As])
5) 4 out that make a low that don’t give you anything else ([7c] [7d] [7h] [7s])
6) 3 outs for the nut, nut ([Ah] [Ac] [Ad])

Lets convert all of these to approx scoop outs
1) 2 (because there is a chance that you are beat by a higher str8)
2) .25 (there is a good chance that you are beat)
3) 4.5 (there is a chance that someone is playing A3 or 35 to take some of your low pot)
4) 1 (chance you are beat both ways)
5) 1 (only playing for 1/2 the pot and there is a chance that you are beat for the low)
6) 3

That means you have around 12 outs +/- a few. That would mean that you need around 2.7:1 on your money to break even.

That means I would fold to the first turn bet esp. because it was a very laggy game so it is likely someone will raise behind you. When the action come back around to you I probably would call but I would be pissed at my self for the previous 2 calls.