River checkraises [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

brazilio

09-25-2005, 05:17 AM

Some of these are vomitously bad. I was going for a turn and/or river checkraise because Button was very aggressive pre and postflop, and I was really surprised he didn't bet the turn. He also was in the habit of punishing preflop raisers with turn bluff raises.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero raises, 1 fold, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero caps, Button calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Turn: (5.66 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (5.66 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks...

Final Pot: A MILLION BB

Villain was slightly passive. pfr was questionable, but I hate completing at 1/3 blinds, and I want to play this. Was wondering if most are completing this, folding this, or what. UTG was a 40% VP$IP 6% pfr, BB was very loose and very passive. If he's got an ace he's betting, he might pull off a bluff bet with a flush he wouldn't call with, and he probably won't call a bet without an ace.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls.

River: (6.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks...

Final Pot:

This was kind of an odd one, Button was the reason I was at the table, 70%VP$IP, 30% pfr, very aggressive and bluff-happy postflop. I figured the coldcall on the turn might induce a bet on the river from either one, and neither one would fold an ace to my ostensibly odd action.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, Button calls, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Button raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (12 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero checks...

Final Pot: LOTS
So am I lame or what.

hobbsmann

09-25-2005, 05:33 AM

hand 1 bet bet bet

hand 2 bet

hand 3 donk

MoDOH

09-25-2005, 06:19 AM

Hand 1 you have to bet the turn especially in light of this

[ QUOTE ]
He also was in the habit of punishing preflop raisers with turn bluff raises.

[/ QUOTE ]
bet-threebet so you can punish HIS turn bluff raises

if your read in hand 2 is ok I like it, otherwise bet it...

Hand 3 I would have popped the Turn instead as it is no guarantee that BB will call 1 more bet on the turn. But your chances of getting it capped on the turn is pretty good if you raise, if BT is really that bluff happy I wouldn´t be surprised if he bluffcapped it here once in a while, but in short, unless you raise, the Turn can never get capped and especially not threeways

Since you choose to just call the Turn you have to donk this river... Do you see why?

brazilio

09-25-2005, 06:28 AM

Once i just flat call the turn, donking the river is the worst option available. Perhaps you need to see why, but my turn action and river actions being as incongruous as that make it 100% I won't get raised so I can 3-bet. And I don't see how a bluff cap would help us, all my turn 3-bet does is knock out the BB when he'll be much more liable to call 2 on the river if it does turn out the BB checks it to the Button who's aggressive enough he'll bet a ton of stuff.

Nietzsche

09-25-2005, 07:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Once i just flat call the turn, donking the river is the worst option available. Perhaps you need to see why, but my turn action and river actions being as incongruous as that make it 100% I won't get raised so I can 3-bet. And I don't see how a bluff cap would help us, all my turn 3-bet does is knock out the BB when he'll be much more liable to call 2 on the river if it does turn out the BB checks it to the Button who's aggressive enough he'll bet a ton of stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]
What is your read on BB? I think this is the determining factor. You best play depends on the likelyhood he will 3-bet the turn IMO. If he is aggressive and has noticed button bluffing a lot it is possible he will 3-bet lightly with only top pair. He might be scared of your cold call though. But he may also read it as a lone club draw and decide to punish.

With no read I prefer donking the river. The is some risk it may get checked through, especially because they may fear your cold call on the turn. And if button bets your CR gets nothing out of BB who will fold most of the time. If you donk there is some chance BB will call and bluffhappy button raises. I don't see how you can be 100% sure bluffhappy button won't raise the river.

I don't see why you think BB will call a river CR but not a turn raise. If he is holding a hand like AxJc he probably will call the turn raise but not a river CR.

brazilio

09-25-2005, 12:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]

What is your read on BB? I think this is the determining factor. You best play depends on the likelyhood he will 3-bet the turn IMO. If he is aggressive and has noticed button bluffing a lot it is possible he will 3-bet lightly with only top pair. He might be scared of your cold call though. But he may also read it as a lone club draw and decide to punish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Button wasn't very aggressive on the river, and although I only had 150 hands I don't think I'd seen a river bluffraise. At the time I was sure I'd get at least a value bet out of the Button, and probably one out of the BB since my turn coldcall was indicative of a lone club draw and not much else. I don't think he's going to fold the river to my river checkraise ever, but he'll fold a lot of top pair hands on the turn if he's got to call two, and he doesn't have any lone clubs I could possibly be afraid of. At the time I was hoping for two actions, either a turn 3-bet with BB's top pair after I coldcalled, or a river bet out by the BB or button. When I was saying Button was more likely to call two on the river, I think the strange turn+river action would induce him to coldcall more if he doesn't value bet it.