crippling the deck. gimme a line.

[PokerBob]

Canterbury 15/30. 9 handed.

villain can get a little weird and frisky preflop (open raise QTo UTG +2), but haven't seen him do anything absurd postflop.

He raises UTG, 1 fold, I cold call with 77. SB calls, BB folds.

Flop 3 ways: A77r
UTG bets, I call, SB folds.

Turn: 4
UTG checks, I............

[James282]

bet and hope he check-raises. Or check and hope he fills up. Doesn't matter really imo.
-James

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
bet and hope he check-raises. Or check and hope he fills up. Doesn't matter really imo.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

well, this is where i struggled. he clearly loves the ace or hates it. If he has a hand like KK and i check, he will likely bet or call the river. If he has an A and missed a c/r, he will bet the river and likely call a raise or even 3 bet me. Does this make sense? I ask cuz I dunno. meh.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bet and hope he check-raises. Or check and hope he fills up. Doesn't matter really imo.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

well, this is where i struggled. he clearly loves the ace or hates it. If he has a hand like KK and i check, he will likely bet or call the river. If he has an A and missed a c/r, he will bet the river and likely call a raise or even 3 bet me. Does this make sense? I ask cuz I dunno. meh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like an okay case for checking then. Depends on the opponent, a lot won't bet the KK or whatever on the river but will call if you bet it out from the turn. Just tough to get action with quads.
-James

[Drontier]

Why not raise flop?

[andyfox]

The Andy Fox Quads Rule: Bet the flop, check the turn.

Sometimes I violate the rule. I'll let The Dude elaborate.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not raise flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

i thought about that after the fact, as a raise there sure doesn't smell like an ace.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
The Andy Fox Quads Rule: Bet the flop, check the turn.

Sometimes I violate the rule. I'll let The Dude elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, but he bet the flop.should i raise?

[imashyboi]

I actually like the raise on the flop. why slowdown when you're pretty sure he might have an A. even if has KK or QQ, i'm sure he'll call down in this spot. i like the raise on the flop cause many players tend to play back on the flop or on the turn. if he makes it 3 bets on the flop then you can easily c/raise the turn or river.

[GoodOL]

Bet the turn to give him the opportunity to make a mistake. The likelihood of him having a hand with which he calls or CRs (an A, an underpair, or AA!!!) is greater than the chance of him folding a hand that would get you much action on the river if you let him see it for free.

[andyfox]

I'd just call the flop. I'd check behind on the turn.

[Borodog]

OK, I had a similar situation where I had the deck ENTIRELY crippled. Guy raised, I 3-bet AQs, he calls. The flop is AAQ. The turn was the case Ace, and the river was another Queen, giving me quad aces and putting AAQAQ onboard. What would be your line at every point in this hand?

[GoodOL]

I raise or bet the flop (if my memory serves me correctly, I have raised a flopped royal before...I know I've raised with quads). Most players just don't put you on big hands when you show aggression on the flop...because many players like to wait for the turn...so they assume others are like that.
When the case ace falls on the turn, your opponent is less likely to put you on an ace....so, again, I'll bet it (hoping he CRs with a pocket pair or a Q). If he bets it, I'm likely to raise, hoping he'll call me down (or, maybe reraise). I don't like passing up on chances for my opponents to make huge mistakes...in an effort to MAYBE extract an extra bet.
Lastly, when you fast play your big hands...you get more respect when you fast play your draws/marginal hands...allowing you to steal some pots or get you to the river cheaper.

[ggbman]

I'd bet, because if you dont think he'll fold a big PP you'll get more bets in by just betting both streets. If he's being tricky with a big ace, you are in the money. He's not going to bet 3/bet or check-raise the river with KK just because you check behind the turn.

[DeeJ]

If he's UTG I would say he's more likely to love his Ace. He could even have AA (and I will worry that he'll hit his 1 outer /images/graemlins/blush.gif) so I bet and hope he check-raises. Which I then call and when he bets the river, raise the [deleted] back /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Munkster]

I didn't think calling an utg raise w/77 can be correct in your position - explain please.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't think calling an utg raise w/77 can be correct in your position - explain please.

[/ QUOTE ]

villain can get a little weird and frisky preflop (open raise QTo UTG +2),

[mvernon851]

Check. You have to give them a chance to pick up something.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bet and hope he check-raises. Or check and hope he fills up. Doesn't matter really imo.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

well, this is where i struggled. he clearly loves the ace or hates it. If he has a hand like KK and i check, he will likely bet or call the river. If he has an A and missed a c/r, he will bet the river and likely call a raise or even 3 bet me. Does this make sense? I ask cuz I dunno. meh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like an okay case for checking then. Depends on the opponent, a lot won't bet the KK or whatever on the river but will call if you bet it out from the turn. Just tough to get action with quads.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

unless the openent slowplayed JJ /images/graemlins/wink.gif ... or in this case AA

Barron

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bet and hope he check-raises. Or check and hope he fills up. Doesn't matter really imo.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

well, this is where i struggled. he clearly loves the ace or hates it. If he has a hand like KK and i check, he will likely bet or call the river. If he has an A and missed a c/r, he will bet the river and likely call a raise or even 3 bet me. Does this make sense? I ask cuz I dunno. meh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like an okay case for checking then. Depends on the opponent, a lot won't bet the KK or whatever on the river but will call if you bet it out from the turn. Just tough to get action with quads.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]

unless the openent slowplayed JJ /images/graemlins/wink.gif ... or in this case AA



[/ QUOTE ]

not really, as we were HU and the number of raises was unlimited. If he had AA, I was gonna get my bets at some point.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't think calling an utg raise w/77 can be correct in your position - explain please.

[/ QUOTE ]

villain can get a little weird and frisky preflop (open raise QTo UTG +2),

[/ QUOTE ]
Why not 3 bet to try to keep this to a heads up confrontation? Did you just call becuz you were in the kind of game where one cold call creates many more calls? I would tend to 3 bet in this situation if I thought I could get it heads up and I would just call if i was in a very loose game and hope to create a 5way+ pot.

[PokerBob]

Canterbury 15/30. 9 handed.

villain can get a little weird and frisky preflop (open raise QTo UTG +2), but haven't seen him do anything absurd postflop.

He raises UTG, 1 fold, I cold call with 77. SB calls, BB folds.

Flop 3 ways: A77r
UTG bets, I call, SB folds.

Turn: 4
UTG checks, I, being of limited intellect, bet. he folded and claims the A saved him tones of loot with his KK as i flash my 7777.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't think calling an utg raise w/77 can be correct in your position - explain please.

[/ QUOTE ]

villain can get a little weird and frisky preflop (open raise QTo UTG +2),

[/ QUOTE ]
Why not 3 bet to try to keep this to a heads up confrontation? Did you just call becuz you were in the kind of game where one cold call creates many more calls? I would tend to 3 bet in this situation if I thought I could get it heads up and I would just call if i was in a very loose game and hope to create a 5way+ pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

the table was insanely loose. (earlier a donkey called my raise on the button with 93s.) I figured lotsa donks would come along if I CC'ed. I probably could have cleared the field with a 3-bet, but I'm likely not all that far ahead of UTG. I figured I'd try to win a big pot and flop goot. i got the 2nd part right.

[catlover]

Well you don't really have the deck crippled as he could have an ace. Probably he was stealing on the flop and will fold the turn. But from his point of view, you can't be on a draw, so you have to have something. So if he's smart he won't bluff the river even if you check behind. Therefore I think you should bet here. It's very likely he will fold to your bet, but it's still your best chance to make some more $$$ here.