A hand I botched on almost every street

[sweetjazz]

Bleh, this is probably pretty marginal. I'll give my reads as best as I can. I don't really like how I played this hand at all. MP2 is 23/8/1.7 (W2SD 34%) over 118 hands and CO is 21/6/0.8 (W2SD 19%) over 160 hands. I don't like PF 3-bet here. I thought CO was making a position raise here, but if I had looked at his PFR more closely before hitting the raise button I would have mucked. I don't like such a low PFR with a VPIP around 20 -- that suggests he's limping with hands like KQ, KJ, AJ, and so I am in serious danger of being dominated.

Once I am in the hand, I need to try to take it down unimproved. Flop bet is mandatory. I think the turn check is bad, because I have a good chance of folding out precisely the hands that dominate me (AK, AQ). Instead, I fear being against a PP and decide to check behind and take a free card. So I end up hitting one of my "outs" and all of a sudden I am facing two cold here. I think CO has AA, KK, AsJs, or AK here often enough that folding is clearly best, no?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP2 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6.70 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP2 checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

River: (6.70 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero ...

[Pog0]

I am a big fan of your analysis.
Folding preflop is good.
Betting turn is good.
Folding river is good.

[sweetjazz]

Yes but unfortunately...
I did not fold preflop.
I did not bet turn.
I did not fold river.

For theoretical understanding of this hand, I give myself an A. For practical application of said knowledge to actual play of this hand, I get an F.

[PITTM]

[ QUOTE ]

For theoretical understanding of this hand, I give myself an A. For practical application of said knowledge to actual play of this hand, I get an F.

[/ QUOTE ]

this was one of the few times i actually lol'ed. it reminds me of when we used to play hockey as kids and i would say "perfectly executed, but it didnt work" to my friends' poor ideas. and i agree, good analysis, poor play.

rj

The turn is pretty close, and not folding preflop kind of put you in this spot. I think you're pretty much never folding these guys out on the turn. So in order to take the pot down you're going to have to fire the turn and river. Even if you do that you might not fold out hands like AK, AQ, and will almost never fold out a hand like JJ that MP2 might be playing scared. So I like the flop bet, but I actually like the turn check to take a free card. Unfortunately your outs are no good, and you made a good fold.

[sweetjazz]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately your outs are no good, and you made a good fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh no, I think (now!) that folding the river is the best play here, but as you might have noticed, there wasn't too much of thinking going on in this hand, at least on my end of things. No I truly botched this hand on almost every street, and only the flop was my saving grace. I agree the turn is close, but what makes betting correct is that villains both go to SD pretty infrequently, particularly the preflop raiser (CO), who is much more likely to have me dominated. And unfortunately, my PF 3-bet has bloated the pot where it moves closer decisions to betting to try to win the pot instead of checking to take a free card.

you should NEVER play poker again.

[thesharpie]

Is the flop bet even good? Sure it might buy us a free card, but he's probably only giving it when we have 3 outs, when we have 6 outs it's probably costing us 2SB to see the turn. Best you could hope for is AJ. With no fold equity I even check the flop.

River is a fold since the best you can hope for is a chop. He needs to have KQ ~40% of the time and other combinations are alot more likely, plus this puss might go for the overcall with KQ.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
it reminds me of when we used to play hockey as kids and i would say "perfectly executed, but it didnt work" to my friends' poor ideas.

[/ QUOTE ]

My HS tennis coach used to say "good idea, bad execution" whenever any of us tried the tennis equivalent of FPS (and failed).

OP...you only really messed up one street: preflop. Making the correct decision there eliminates the necessity of making any of the other ones. 21/6 players aren't making position raises--that's why their PFR is so low to begin with.

[lufbradolly]

Easy river fold.

Not close.