Pray in your closet

[DavidC]

I'm a little weirded out by Christians who walk around with pens on their necks with the band-pen-necklace-type-thing (I'm not sure what to call it) that says "I /images/graemlins/heart.gif Jesus".

This doesn't really line up with something Jesus is said to have said in the Book of Matthew: "Pray in your closet."

Now a few things here:

1) I don't know if the word "closet" is actually the word that was used in the testament, or if that's just a weird KJB translation, but the point gets across just fine.

2) The purpose of "praying in your closet" was to pray as a devotion to God rather than to pray for esteem among men, and thus, someone who's wearing an "I /images/graemlins/heart.gif Jesus" pen-necklace-band-type-thing wouldn't necessarily be guilty of any sort of sin, as long as they weren't doing it to try to get a promotion at work or some crap like that, which they most likely aren't.

Anyways, any comments would be appreciated.

I'm mostly just a really introverted person when it comes to faith, so that's why this overt display of faith kinda bothers me, which is why I think about it.

--Dave.

[quinn]

I think you figured it out yourself.

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wouldn't necessarily be guilty of any sort of sin, as long as they weren't doing it to try to get a promotion at work or some crap like that, which they most likely aren't.

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Here's the full text for the all the Christians who haven't read the words of their Lord and Savior:

Matthew 6
1 "Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
2 "Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
3 But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4 so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
5 "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.
6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
7 "And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words.
8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come.....

Now it seems fairly clear to me that he's saying:

- Prayer is a personal, private thing with God, do not do it in public (though the last phrase is very open to debate)
- God already knows you desires and wishes, so don't pray for anything specific

I guess Jesus needs to work on his persuasion skills, cause even his most ardent followers aren't listening.

[BluffTHIS!]

You are talking about two different things. The first is prayer, and the second is choosing to be known as a Christian. Although I think some of the overly aggressive evangelization techniques of certain christians are counter-productive, and that the best opportunities to share the faith come from friendship, being known as a christian should allow more possibilities to share one's faith and is different from making a public show of private prayer, which is what Jesus was talking about.

[DavidC]

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I think you figured it out yourself.

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No, I still have no idea what that pen-necklace-thing is called.

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Now that it's out in the open it makes sense, though.

I'm curious though, in the same chapter it mentioned fasting... This is something that I haven't heard of Christians doing, other than monks.

Any info on that?

--Dave.

Edit: Hmm... looking at 008's response, I don't see anything about fasting. I'm sure it's from the same section though.

And to 008, thanks for your help.

[Jeff V]

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I guess Jesus needs to work on his persuasion skills, cause even his most ardent followers aren't listening

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Wow.

That's what you get from those verses? You don't know the context of the whole story in this chapter. You can't see any time when praying in public would be good?

For someone who considers themself so smart this does not say much about your interpretive skills. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif (that was to get you riled up)

[whiskeytown]

long story short....

Basically, the verse says don't pray in the streets. It says don't make a show of being holy with your prayer. It doesn't say don't wear certain clothes - it's about taking a holy act and twisting it for public approval.

this may be irrelevant for the most part right now, but remember this was a very religious culture 2000 years ago. The concept of someone praying in the street might even invite a crowd. God's point is, don't show off for people - prayer is just for me -

So is the intent the same today with a I /images/graemlins/heart.gif Jesus pendant? - not even close - someone wearing one isn't in prayer with God. It's not a sacrament or anything...

It's just a statement of faith, not to show off ... ALTHOUGH - you can start to see this again in the Religious Right Culture..... - go to a Christian College and see how guys try to outdo/outpray/outpraise/outsing each other to impress girls and their peers.

If I have any gripe, it's just how some of those things, like the WWJD bracelet or pendants like that is that they become fashion statements or selling slogans.

I love 6:7, BTW - anyone who wonders what he means by "many words" needs to go to church some sunday where they have guest prayers/speakers. Lord, we just praise you, ....we just ask you....we just....we just....we just....we just....we just....(and how about rehearsing or practicing that prayer....LOL)

No matter what your religious faith, the Sermon on the Mount offer some very, very powerful stuff. I'd put it right alongside the best sayings/books/proverbs of all faiths. Even an athiest could hear some nice things in that book. Even if he considered it pure fiction, there's a lot of good ideals in there for us to strive to today.

RB

It's completely debatable, I said as much. I think the most you can take from that passage is that Jesus has a preference for private prayer, and that you shouldn't flaunt your prayers to be seen. Good advice.

However, the bit in blue seems fairly umambiguous:

7 "And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words.
8 <font color="blue">Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 Pray then like this:</font> Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed

This fairly clearly asks followers not to pray for specific things, because "your Father knows what you need before you ask him". He even gives you a prayer to use. I think most Christians on the planet fail to observe this teaching. Perhaps God has inspired me to inform the Christians on the SMP forum about his word?

Also,
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I guess Jesus needs to work on his persuasion skills, cause even his most ardent followers aren't listening

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(that was to get you riled up)

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[whiskeytown]

I disagree.....I believe the verse implies not that they shouldn't ask for anything specific, but they shouldn't think that by going on and on that they're praying the right thing. It's telling them to keep it short and sweet.

He says "why go on and on and on when he already knows what you need - just keep it short and sweet" but it doesn't say you can't throw a couple specific prayers/thoughts in there.

Primo example....the Lords Prayer - if you've ever been to a church, you know that prayer is the SHORTEST prayer you're gonna hear in church by far, and that was written by Jesus.

Now you get all the other pastors, theologicans and stuff in there, and look at how long some of those prayers there go - they can go for 5 minutes sometimes and other guys will go for an hr and in the old days Martin Luther would go on for 4 hours. - God's saying he doesn't like that....but he never says to keep your requests vague.

And in later passages, Jesus ENCOURAGES a person to pray for specific things. He cites how even a judge, if he gets hassled day after day by the same old widow, will eventually just rule in her favor just to get rid of her. Moreso will God, (who actually loves us) give even more - so be specific is what that package says.

RB

[Jeff V]

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This fairly clearly asks followers not to pray for specific things, because "your Father knows what you need before you ask him". He even gives you a prayer to use. I think most Christians on the planet fail to observe this teaching.

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Very insiteful. Most people think it's pray this, not pray like this. Hence the Our Father, and the other ceramonies of "religion", which are a huge turn-off to skeptics as well as myself.

In this passage Jesus was within earshot of the pharasees (cerimony, pomp, and circumstance to the extreme), I picture Him speaking loud enough so they can hear. I'm sure they were appalled. It reminds me of a kind of Biblical check raise.

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I think the most you can take from that passage is that Jesus has a preference for private prayer, and that you shouldn't flaunt your prayers to be seen. Good advice.

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For prayer I agree. I do see circumstances where public displays of faith are appropriate, but that's another thread.

Hmmm.Did you and I just agree? And you doubt miracles!
Jeff

I agree it doesn't explicity state the negative, but it does very strongly state a positive. Especially by this:

"For your Father knows what you need before you ask him."

He knows what you need in his infinite wisdom, and he knows the desires of your heart better than you do. In light of this, and what Jesus said above...what possible use is praying for specific things?

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And in later passages, Jesus ENCOURAGES a person to pray for specific things.

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Do you have a chapter and verse?

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He cites how even a judge, if he gets hassled day after day by the same old widow, will eventually just rule in her favor just to get rid of her. Moreso will God, (who actually loves us) give even more

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The way you phrased this, God can be nagged, and if you do it enough he'll give in. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[whiskeytown]

Luke 18:1-8 -

http://www.bible.org/netbible2/index.php?book=luk&amp;chapter=18&amp;verse=1&amp;submit=Looku p+Verse

in these cases, they're a bit higher lofty - prayers for justice or for wisdom....but they could just as easily be that God deliver your son home from Iraq.

Remember - a prayer for justice isn't just a "prayer for justice" - it's individually a prayer to fix some perceived injustice inflicted upon ourselves by someone or something, and that would make it a personal prayer request most of the time.

RB