Stud8 - fivehanded

[Ginogino]

I play in a home game where one player ordinarily deals hi/lo stud with a declare when we are 7 or 8 handed, but where he (and others) change to stud-8 or better when we are relatively short-handed (say 4 or 5 players).

It seems to me that cutting the field down to 5 players fairly substantially reduces the chance of there being a low qualifier and, thus, in the proper circumstances makes something like (QQ)4 or (J9)J not only playable, but a hand one might raise with (especially if this will make the rest of the hand headsup).

Does anyone have thoughts regarding the kinds of hands to play and the way to play them when playing at a relatively shorthanded table?

Thanks,

Gino

[Andy B]

I need a pretty good reason to fold a pair of Queens on third street in a full game. You get presented with good reasons all the time, but it's not like it's a trash hand. Jacks aren't complete trash either, but they're getting close....Short-handed, you are going to see fewer lows, and pairs become a lot more playable. I've even been known to raise with split Nines in a short-handed game.

I miss high-low declare.

[Ginogino]

Andy:
Thanks for the reply. Where I live (Virginia) a good home game is the best one can hope for. I can understand the reluctance of casinos to spread a "declare" game, but I've always thought that adding a declare creates a strategy twist that's another edge for the thinking player.

I wonder if an on-line site could be induced to add a declare game (20 seconds -- declare or be folded -- everyone's declare is revealed simultaneously). This might induce me to try stud online.

Gino

[Andy B]

I think that poker web sites try to mimic casino poker as much as possible, and I think that this is for the best. You will never see a declare game in a casino. The declaration makes a slow game even slower, to the detriment of the rake. There is also the potential for confusion about who declared what. Dealers get confused enough in this game, believe me. Mason has also said many times that for a poker game to thrive, there has to be a balance between luck and skill. The good player arguably has a bigger edge in high/low declare than in any other game.

[Graham]

Hi-lo stud declare....oh, would I love that game online..!
Dunno if it'll happen, but it's fun and I bet it'd make an action game.

G

[Mr. Peterson]

Andy when you play your QQ in full games, what percentage of the time do you find yourself folding on 4th or 5th?

I occasionally play QQ if the timings right, but have other friends who play big pairs (everyone plays AA) religiously. These players usually seem to be the big donaters in the game (not nec. because they play big pairs every time) but occasionally kill everyone. Obviously they have increased variation.

I also think they play big pairs poorly by sticking in when lows are obviously made, or when low draws catch an A (even worse).

[Andy B]

Hard to say. I might fold 20% of the time on fourth street, something like that. I probably fold on fifth street another 20% or more. I used to be a lot more stubborn with those big pairs than I am now. Once the lows get there, their value diminishes considerably.

[cero_z]

Hi Andy,
In my opinion, Queens should hardly ever be played in a full Stud8 game, and Jacks are a sucker hand. Now, I play in a very loose game, which makes folding those hands even easier, as they obviously play badly against 4 or 5 opponents (the minimum amount of 4th street contenders in my game).
It is counter-intuitive to think of queens or jacks as trash, but I believe it's correct. I learned this from Zee's book, where he warns against overvaluing KINGS in this game. I agree with the other poster who said that those who religiously see 4th with 'big' pairs tend to be donators. But, I understand that you are a long-term winner in the game. Has your experience been different?