who else on 2+2 trades professionally?

Would like to hear from other professional traders - prop, MMs, retail, institutional, etc. What do you trade?

I know many famous poker players are/were also traders or vice versa. I always wonder which they are better at. Ferguson, Lester, Demetriou, Bright, etc.

I find trading much more enjoyable and rewarding than poker. Much more dynamic.

[Paluka]

I'm an options mm.

[cwsiggy]

Used to be a NASDAQ market maker before the whole scene died down.

independent trader, most otcbb/pink some naz

[Degen]

very interesting topic

could you please explain to me what a 'trader' is?

how is that different from a stock broker?


what is the pay like for this and what credentials are required?


if anybody would be willing to let a recent college grad/professional poker player/very enthusiastic market student pick their brain on this it'd be very much appreciated

aim:mclgaucho
email:wfdean@hotmail.com

brokers don't know what their doing

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]
brokers don't know what their doing

[/ QUOTE ]

neither do otc/pink traders

I am an equity trader (Pan-European / institutional)

DPRK
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man pinksheets suck lololol

[Sniper]

Hi hap,

I day trade stocks and options and have dabbled in forex, futures and commodities. Mentor a few others traders and Op a few IRC rooms on a dedicated financial IRC network, where I am in contact with thousands of other traders thru out the day.

I went pro as a trader a few years ago after leaving a long term (7 year - 6 figure) consulting assignment managing technology projects for a major investment bank.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
could you please explain to me what a 'trader' is?
how is that different from a stock broker?

[/ QUOTE ]

A stock broker is a commissioned salesman that takes the research produced by a research analyst and sells you on the reasons to buy a stock. When you make a trade the broker sends the trade to a trader for actual execution. The broker makes his money by convincing you to make trades, and sometimes (ala Boiler Room - definately recommended movie) getting you into questionable IPOs, or other low quality stocks that they may be compensated for dumping on you.

A Trader, actually executes a stock transaction in the market. They may be doing this on behalf of a firm, acting as a market maker/specialist, managing retail (customer) orders, or for their own account.

you on othernet?

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
you on othernet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, are you? (look me up)

pm'd you earlier in the day but you never replied

Not part of this I hope.

http://news.efinancialcareers.co.uk/JOB_MARKET_ITEM/newsItemId-4660

Plain vanilla equity execution traders are being crushed by automated systems. For the longest time, this has been known. Do you ever think about switching products or are you trading prop for an institution, in which case this probably doesn't concern you.

[Paluka]

What skills are involved in being an equity execution trader exactly?

[Sniper]

On 2+2 or on Othernet? (either way I didn't get it)

You can PM on 2+2 with your nick on Othernet and I'll look for you.

I'd say sell-side execution traders main skills would be client relationships. At the fund I was at, we dealt with Asian equity desks so they might be a bit different but basically equity execution traders are sales traders. They call you to give you pre-open updates and what to look out for during the day, they also give you some idea of the flow they are seeing and stocks available to cross. Occassionally they might suggest a trade idea to you although I don't think anyone takes that seriously. Basically, they are calling to remind the buyside trader that they are there and looking to be helpful or add value in hopes of getting orders(and hence commissions). So now, let's say the buyside trader gives the sell-side trader an order. He'll go ahead and execute that order over the day usually with discretion(but this all depends on the instructions you tell them) and probably a minimum goal of beating VWAP. Goldman is moving more toward automation here as they have an algorithmic model to match VWAP(although I've seen this in action, it kinda sucks and some of the fills look very random).

Buyside execution traders will be responsible for managing the orders and making sure they get executed and so they will be in contact with the sell-side desks a lot. They also need to manage relations with the sell-side so that they get treated well. In effect, you look to scratch each other's backs(we give you a lot of commissions you give us good IPO allocations, etc.). Depending on the fund structure, buyside traders also might do more than just execution.

Not sure if I am leaving anything out, but this is what I came up with off the top of my head.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
VWAP

[/ QUOTE ]

For the benefit of those who have no idea what this is...

VWAP = Volume Weighted Average Price

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say sell-side execution traders main skills would be client relationships. At the fund I was at, we dealt with Asian equity desks so they might be a bit different but basically equity execution traders are sales traders. They call you to give you pre-open updates and what to look out for during the day, they also give you some idea of the flow they are seeing and stocks available to cross. Occassionally they might suggest a trade idea to you although I don't think anyone takes that seriously. Basically, they are calling to remind the buyside trader that they are there and looking to be helpful or add value in hopes of getting orders(and hence commissions). So now, let's say the buyside trader gives the sell-side trader an order. He'll go ahead and execute that order over the day usually with discretion(but this all depends on the instructions you tell them) and probably a minimum goal of beating VWAP. Goldman is moving more toward automation here as they have an algorithmic model to match VWAP(although I've seen this in action, it kinda sucks and some of the fills look very random).

Buyside execution traders will be responsible for managing the orders and making sure they get executed and so they will be in contact with the sell-side desks a lot. They also need to manage relations with the sell-side so that they get treated well. In effect, you look to scratch each other's backs(we give you a lot of commissions you give us good IPO allocations, etc.). Depending on the fund structure, buyside traders also might do more than just execution.

Not sure if I am leaving anything out, but this is what I came up with off the top of my head.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me tell ya, that is nothing like options market making.

I just queried sniper and got no response, your an op in newstraders(news something), i'll pm you again midday during the lull.

[Sniper]

I op in #newsroom, #ticktraders and #lavapit... pop in and say hi

Yeah, I can imagine. Not only are you coming from a more complex product which requires a solid grasp of option pricing theory, but you are also on the floor making markets. Completely different worlds.

Can you describe for us a typical day working on the floor for Susq as an options mm? This could give 2+2ers a better idea of how different trading jobs can be. Which exchange are you at, SF, Chitown, Philly?

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I can imagine. Not only are you coming from a more complex product which requires a solid grasp of option pricing theory, but you are also on the floor making markets. Completely different worlds.

Can you describe for us a typical day working on the floor for Susq as an options mm? This could give 2+2ers a better idea of how different trading jobs can be. Which exchange are you at, SF, Chitown, Philly?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm actually on the Amex. I may describe a typical day in a later post.

[NoTalent]

I would be interested in hearing about a normal day as well.

[mrbaseball]

[ QUOTE ]
I find trading much more enjoyable and rewarding than poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, me too! I have been trading for about 18 years now. I am maybe the most diverse trader imaginable. I started out as an options market maker in 30yr bond futures at the CBOT. I have since traded many pits at both CBOT and CME. I moved off the floors about 9 years ago and have traded many different contracts and arbitrage opportunities. Over the years I have traded virtually every commodity and commodity option there are in both the Chicago and NY futures exchanges. Currently I am managing an in house stock/stock options portfolio as well as trading some speculative and arbitrage accounts. Today for example I traded some stocks, stock options, midcap 400, russell 2000, s&p's, 30yr, 10 yr, 5 yr, eurodollars, swiss franc, eurocurrency, candian dollars, and natural gas. Most guys trade one or two things and I trade everything! My desk is a mass of monitors and I often have several trades and position running concurrently. For some reason I find this easier than 4 tabling low limit poker?

[galahad_187]

woah

[ctv1116]

Jack of all trades, master of none? I mean, more power to you if you can excel at all of those different products, but wouldn't you be better served specializing in one product, just like a poker player might be better served focusing on limit hold'em exclusively or O8 exclusively, rather than knowing all the games at a basic level?

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
I mean, more power to you if you can excel at all of those different products, but wouldn't you be better served specializing in one product, just like a poker player might be better served focusing on limit hold'em exclusively or O8 exclusively, rather than knowing all the games at a basic level?

[/ QUOTE ]

By being knowledgable across several different products, he's better able to take advantage of opportunities in any market. Kind of like having accounts at all the major poker rooms so you can increase your odds of finding a great table!

[mrbaseball]

I should explain. I am primarily a spreader. Most of my trading invovles buying one contract while selling another. So for example I trade 30yr vs 10yr, 5yr vs euro$, midcap vs russell, swiss vs euro etc. So I watch the spreads and when I feel they get out of line I jump in. Some days certain spreads offer no opportunity while others do. By looking at a variety of different spread trades there are typically one or two of them that are setting up well for that day and that is where I concentrate. I also like to jump on "hot" markets like the current situation in natural gas.

[Officer Farva]

I'm a quant/systems analyst at a global long short fund. I don't trade yet (have to take the series) but I do build tradable models. We operate on information arbitrage, taking advantage of slow market reaction to correlated events. We were flat during the summer (all of the euopeans go on "holiday"), but have had a great September, posting a %5 return and bringing us above 10 YTD, which is important as we just "got big" .

I crave action in my life and hence my affection for poker. I can't wait till I can get my fix through trading. Until then, I spend much of my day fantasizing about the 600NL I'll play when work ends. This is bad because I have an unusually great opportunity (I came here straight from undergrad), and I often don't apply myself as much as I should.

I often wonder what would happen I if were to pursue poker full-time. I am fairly certain that my short term life would improve. Instead of working 5am-5pm, Id work 5pm-5am. Instead of passing out at 9 when my friends were heading out to the bars, I'd be the one beraiding them for having to go home. Instead of building models, I'd by dragging pots. Instead of Excel, Pokertracker.

But in the long term, its not even a choice. I've got to stick to the more "legitimate" form of gambling.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm actually on the Amex. I may describe a typical day in a later post.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be interested to hear about it as well.

eastbay

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I'm actually on the Amex. I may describe a typical day in a later post.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be interested to hear about it as well.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

In general, the lives of the options market makers that work on the floor are all the same regardless of who you work for. There are various "crowds" or "pits" where particular products trade. In many cases, there is no rhyme or reason to how these are grouped. In my crowd you can trade F, YHOO, S, SNDK, and a wide variety of other equity options. Physically, the crowds look like a bar, with some dudes with computers on one side where bartdenders would be, and other dudes on the other side where the drunks would be. Everyone has a computer, or usually more than one. Brokers come in and out of the crowd with customer orders, and market makers make markets for them (obviously). There are also posted electronic markets, which are normally disseminated by a "specialist". Most small trades are done through the electronic system rather than with brokers. This goes on all day.

This is one of the major reasons I left the fund I was employed at to trade my own account. Much more personal freedom.

yep, nothing like going to the beach when the day is slow /images/graemlins/smile.gif, instead of sitting there waiting to clock out

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
yep, nothing like trading from the beach and playing some poker on your wireless laptop when the day is slow , instead of sitting in a dull grey cubicle waiting to clock out

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[guardianx]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi hap,

I day trade stocks and options and have dabbled in forex, futures and commodities. Mentor a few others traders and Op a few IRC rooms on a dedicated financial IRC network, where I am in contact with thousands of other traders thru out the day.

I went pro as a trader a few years ago after leaving a long term (7 year - 6 figure) consulting assignment managing technology projects for a major investment bank.

[/ QUOTE ]


what irc channel/ server i would like to join and hang around and see if i can pick up a thing or two

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
what irc channel/ server i would like to join and hang around and see if i can pick up a thing or two

[/ QUOTE ]

mentioned that the IRC network is Othernet earlier in the thread. If you stop by, look me up.