TheWindsorKid - Temp banned pending review by Mat

[Lloyd]

TheWindsorKid has been accused of stealing from a 2+2 member in this thread. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3420363&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) Apparently he is the same person that scammed GrannyMae awhile ago. I've banned him at least until Mat or one of the admins makes a final decision as I'd hate to have somebody else ripped off in the meantime.

[Jurollo]

Not sure how I feel about banning him in the mean time. I mean you cant prove he did anything wrong it is only hear say, people have to make these judgements for themselves whether to trust people it isnt twoplustwo's duty to police these transactions.
~Justin

[Lloyd]

No, but if we know of someone who is scamming people then we do take action in the same manner that staking threads have been banned. 2+2 should not be used as a vehicle to spam or scam. You have to look at the greater good and in this case temporarily banning someone so it can be looked into is much better than running the risk that somebody else gets scammed and all of a sudden people start talking about how they've been scammed by our members, which certainly hurts the reputation of the forum. The fact that it appears as if this is the same person who did this in the past to GrannyMae was the determining factor that a temporary ban was warranted until it can be looked into in further detail. If he's done it twice, what's to stop him from doing it a third time.

At the very least, an email can go out telling him that he's been accused of ripping someone off and asking for an explanation. Now, if he responds and says that it didn't happen or it wasn't presented accurately then unban him - no big deal. But if he doesn't respond (or admits to doing it for some strange reason) then he stays banned.

[Dynasty]

It may be wise to delete these types of threads immediately. Perhaps they shouldn't be allowed.

[Lloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
It may be wise to delete these types of threads immediately. Perhaps they shouldn't be allowed.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. After all, if you're new to the forum nobody SHOULD trust you. And if you've been around for awhile you should have some relationships to tap into via PM.

[Mike Haven]

most of the posters and players are over 18

in the UK people can vote in their Government at age 18

to mollycoddle people over 18 by not letting them see threads like this nor allowing them freedom of thought and action when they read threads like this is simply far too right wing, imo

add your warnings to the threads if you wish (as both i and Jim Kuhn have done in previous Zoo threads) but deletion is way over the top

in the particular thread under scrutiny, the poster wrote:

"I wanna buy 25$ at Paypal.
I'll pay you $30 for it ! plz do me this favour
ill transfer by pokerstars or partypoker.
send me a private msg if you can do this. thanks!"

there is no way he was scamming

apparently, he was scammed by someone he didn't "know" and who presumably has no "record" at 2+2

"naive" comes to mind, but just because this person was scammed (if he was) is not a reason to censor the boards in case our readers harm themselves on the knives that may be in the cupboards

(otoh, of course, if in a specific situation a Moderator suspects a scam, i have no problem with a thread being deleted or a poster being banned)

[Lloyd]

FYI, the person doing the scamming in this case has made a few legitimate posts so it's not like all he has done is come onto the boards and taken someones money. That's why I think it deserves a little extra attention.

As far as censoring, I don't see this any differently than the 2+2 position on posting staking threads. They have been banned because of the potential of abuse. How is this any different? Now, you might disagree with staking threads being banned but that's not the point. The point is that it's similar and therefore should be treated consistently.

[Mike Haven]

personally, i see very little similarity between a request for a staking deal and someone offering to transfer $30 at pokerstars for $25 to be transferred at paypal, or partypoker, or wherever

however, your comment that "you might disagree with staking threads being banned but that's not the point" makes me realise that i might be wasting your time in stating a conservative if not a liberal view, even though i have always previously valued healthy debate

sometimes one feels it is prudent to fold

i fold

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd hate to have somebody else ripped off in the meantime.

[/ QUOTE ]
This sounds like an absurd reason. Do grown adults really need protection from giving someone their money?

[Lloyd]

Yes, unfortunately. Now, whether or not that's our responsibility is a different issue. I look at it more from the point of if people are using 2+2 to scam money then we need to take action to protect the integrity of 2+2 versus protecting individual members. If an individual gets scammed, oh well they should have known better. If they rant and rave over the Net about how they got scammed at 2+2 . . .

[Jim Kuhn]

I strongly agree with Mike! My Neteller account was locked because my father was visiting and accessed his account from my computer. It was a weekend and I was unable to get my account unblocked. I was able to utilize a poker account to account transfer to enter a tourney I really wanted to play in.

I think helping others is what 2+2 is all about. We have all utilized 2+2 to our benefit. Whether it is poker advice, personal advice or money transfers, we all benefit in some way.

I would like to see scammers ip addresses banned. If it were my site I would also ban any poster that has admitted to colluding at the tables. As posters we must utilize discretion when loaning or transferring money. As mods I think we should be able to steer scammers to rgp, the streets or some place away from the 2+2 community.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[Jim Kuhn]

What if Mike Haven, Dynasty or Fossilman needs a money transfer? Do we delete those threads too? Where do we draw the line?

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[Lloyd]

If any reputable poster needed a transfer I'm sure they have a dozen or so people they could PM to get it done. But again, this is tied into the staking thread ban. In that post, Mat agreed that 2+2 should take measures to prevent or at least reduce the chance that someone uses 2+2 to scam. This is along the same lines. Right now, if Fossilman posted another thread asking for staking it should technically be deleted. Funny how if this rule was in place last year we might have Arieh or Williams as our WSOP champ.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
I strongly agree with Mike!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Mike, too.
But that shouldn't be surprising to anyone, as he is usually right about stuff like this.

[Jurollo]

I also dont think deleting these posts and banning suspected scammers is a good idea, 2+2 is an open forum and it is up to the poster's discretion whether or not to lend someone money not the mods'. The overlying fact we need to remember is that this is an open forum and we are only here to trim the fat slightly (spam mostly), going too far with the powers of deletion could easily ruin the community that has taken years to build up. The worst thing that could happen is the select few who have been here longest running things and never allowing new posters to settle in and participate. This isnt a club that you need to accumulate a given number of posts to participate in.
~Justin

[Mike Haven]

i know only too well from personal experience that AGS can smite you when you are given a title

it's not exactly wrong, but as AG realised after he was necessarily mortally wounded by his own man, he had taken his responsibilities too far

(AGS = Alec-Guinness-Syndrome; see The Bridge On The River Kwai: http://www.filmsite.org/bridge.html )