20+2 Am I an idiot or a genius?

No-limit Texas Hold'em $20+$2 (real money),

Seat 1: BusterSafe ($1,480 in chips)
Seat 2: SBBoarder21 ($1,500 in chips)
Seat 3: lassie84 ($1,500 in chips)
Seat 4: Otto74 ($1,480 in chips)
Seat 5: Lauramarie [AD,KD] ($1,480 in chips)
Seat 6: Martwin ($1,080 in chips)
Seat 7: iowalakeslak ($1,980 in chips)
Seat 8: MOMLASAM ($1,500 in chips)
Seat 9: GTWife ($1,500 in chips)
Seat 10: warbx ($1,500 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
iowalakeslak posts blind ($10), MOMLASAM posts blind ($20).

PRE-FLOP
GTWife calls $20, warbx folds, BusterSafe folds, SBBoarder21 folds, lassie84 folds, Otto74 folds, Lauramarie bets $80, Martwin folds, iowalakeslak folds, MOMLASAM folds, GTWife calls $60.

FLOP [board cards 3C,JS,7S ]
GTWife checks, Lauramarie bets $150, GTWife calls $150.

TURN [board cards 3C,JS,7S,AS ]
GTWife checks, Lauramarie bets $250, GTWife bets $500, Lauramarie calls $250.

RIVER [board cards 3C,JS,7S,AS,6C ]
GTWife bets $400, Lauramarie calls $400.


Here are my thoughts.

Preflop: Standard Raise.

Flop: Since he checked to me. I put him on Ax up or a small pair that missed.
So I decided to toss in a continuation bet representing a big pair.

When he called. I decided that I was done with the hand unless an A or K came on the turn, which it of course did.

Turn: The Ace is obviously a good card for me, except that it put a flush possibility on board. So when it's checked to me, I put in a half size pot bet for value and to protect against a flush draw.

Unfortunately, he raised me the minimum. I put him on A rag and call with a possible draw to the flush. He could have the flush, but I think his call on the flop is suspicious. I call planning on folding to an all in bet on the river.

River: My opponent makes a suckers bet. I think about folding but then decide there's a good chance that he's a donk and I'll have 300 chips left over in order to make a comeback, so i call.

A very difficult hand. I am not sure any of your plays were necessarily incorrect. However, I may not have played it that way, simply because I never like to risk over half my stack that early in a SNG without being nearly SURE I have the best hand. With the third spade on the turn, the flush would definitely come into my mind. The call of your nice value bet would be a typical online chase call. Therefore, despite having top pair top kicker, I would probably have made the value bet on the turn, and then folded to the raise on the turn. That way, I still have plenty of chips to work with.

I generally do not concern myself with laying down what might be the best hand, so long as I got plenty of chips to work with still. I assume that I can find more sure spots to bust the donks later.

[Tuben]

Why did you bet the turn when it is3 flush on the board??

You did have position so why dont check on the turn after he checks??

And can somone tell me what a "Sucker bet is"

[kevstreet]

Hey Laura, the HH is a little difficult to read. It's much easier to review when they're converted.

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you bet the turn when it is3 flush on the board??

You did have position so why dont check on the turn after he checks??

[/ QUOTE ]If he's on a flush draw you don't want to give him a free card, do you?

I agree - a value bet on the turn is fine. But I think you fold to even a min raise to conserve your valuable tourney chips, even if the guy is a donk with an arag.

[Tuben]

Well hope i dont read it wrong but ddamn if he has flsuhdraw playing like that. Whit so litle impaled odds whit that raise.

I think more that he has like AJ or has a flush.
But he could have KJ whit spade. I think check behind is the best play here. (Not always ofcourse)
But it is "what i think"

hmm

[Maulik]

on the turn, given the way it was played I'm likely to push AI or muck. I don't like calling and then continuing this hand. Leave yourself with lots of chips or none (if you assume he's a donkey). I think its a mistake to leave yourself shortstacked.

I don't think you did anything wrong in the hand. There are arguments for calling the turn bet and arguments for folding. What was the result?

[Atty]

I check the turn, and call a half to pot-sized bet on the river if it is not a spade. It’s early, and controlling the size of the pot on this tricky board is critical. There are too many holdings that beat TPTK at this point…A J, Set, Flush.

So I was an "idiot". The villian had T8 flush and I was drawing dead on the turn. Here are my thoughts in hindsight.

I should have bet more on the flop. If he was drawing to a flush, then he would be getting implied odds (at least according to Dan Harrington, and in this case he definitly was because I paid off like an idiot). I usually bet half if I totally missed the flop and bet 3/4 of the pot if I made my hand. But maybe I'll make a slight adjustment and also bet 3/4 of the pot when I have over cards.

I agree with the poster who said I should let it go on the turn. My problem is that at the beginning of the tournament I feel like I need to get the donks chips before other players do. So I call down quite a bit. My new solution is to play super tight and only invest a significant portion of my chips when I *know* I'm ahead.

that's it. thanks for the suggestions.

[microbet]

I don't think you were an idiot. Villian played very much like they had the nuts, but they don't always have the nuts when they play like it.

In hindsight a turn check looks good, but at the time you made the turn bet it didn't look like villian had the nuts.

Folding to the check/raise would have been tough. I'm not sure what I would have done. I think once you call the turn, you should call the small (compared to the pot) bet on the river.

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
My problem is that at the beginning of the tournament I feel like I need to get the donks chips before other players do. So I call down quite a bit. My new solution is to play super tight and only invest a significant portion of my chips when I *know* I'm ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

catch22. Pot manipulation, I'd rather be somewhat certain to take down a small pot rather than shooting for tptk on this board.

What I think I'm trying to say is, I'd rather take down t50-75 several times in unraised pots rather than having to make difficult decisions as you were faced.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

why not check behind him on the turn? The 3rd flush card always scares me, and my course of action is always unknown to me until the situation arises, b/c each situation is different. OP's big turn bet will most likely only be called by someone that hit his flush, and if he does not have the flush he is likely folding... so I am not sure what your large turn bet accomplishes. villain appeared to be chasing... although villain should have folded pre-flop... but villain is a donk.

[mosdef]

i'm on board with the check-behind on the turn idea. I realize that he will occasionally have a flush draw and hit it on the river without being charged, and that's bad, but ending the analysis there overlooks the upside of the check. the more common scenario (than him hitting the flush on the river) is he has a weaker ace or nothing at all, and when he senses your weakness on the turn he bets the river when it blanks. you call. if the river is another spade, you're done and you've lost nothing more. if the river blanks and he bets as above, you call - in the case where he has the made flush you lose less than if you got involved on the turn. and you win more than in all the cases where you bet the turn and he has nothing and folds.

where is the maulik i know and love? this is a classic induce-the-bluff scenario.

[microbet]

I'm thinking about the whole induce the bluff thing, but seems like slowplaying mediocre, vulnerable hands is not great.

If he's behind here, he can have a lot of outs. I think betting 250 into that pot is a pretty solid play.

[mosdef]

yeah, i see that point of view, and don't think it's a terrible play. i am more comfortable with the check behind and then go to work after i see the next card. that's a preference of mine, not a statement that it is without doubt the best line.

[Maulik]

where is the maulik i know and love? this is a classic induce-the-bluff scenario.

this is such a good spot for that, great point.