(22) 99 in SB, early on.

[Raiser]

The turn is the part I'm really interested in getting comments on, but as always comments on all streets are welcomed.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 (t775)
UTG+2 (t760)
MP1 (t855)
MP2 (t340)
MP3 (t775)
CO (t740)
Button (t1405)
Hero (t715)
BB (t725)
UTG (t910)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, CO calls t30, Button calls t30, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t120) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t80</font>, BB calls t80, CO calls t80, Button calls t80.

Turn: (t440) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t605 (All-In)</font>, BB folds, CO folds, Button calls t605.

River: (t1650) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t1650

[Raiser]

&lt;shameless bump&gt;

Anyone think this hand is okay?

[revots33]

I'd probably raise preflop with only 2 limpers ahead of you - you probably have the best hand and at the very least you may knock the BB out. It's tough to play a medium pair on a ragged flop when you allow a bunch of limpers.

I think the all-in on the turn was an overbet considering 4 players called the 80 bet on the flop - I doubt they are all drawing for the flush or straight. Odds are good that at least one of them is trapping there with 2 pair or a set.

I don't go broke with a pair of nines in the first few levels, I don't care if it's an overpair or not.

[Raiser]

OK, you don't like the push. How do you play the turn?

[revots33]

I'd bet about 125, see what happens behind me. If someone comes over the top I fold.

[john smith]

I don't know if it's correct, but I like the way you played this. I can see BB and CO calling with flush or straight draws and Button deciding to stick around with overs or A-7 or something weird after seeing the pot build up. The turn push looks good, the pot is big enough that I want to take it down right there and if anyone calls with a draw they're obviously making a mistake.

(Edited because I did not notice 4 callers on the flop).
Interesting hand. I think the mistake you made was not betting enough on the flop. That is a flop where you are very likely to have the best hand, but it has many drawing possibilities. With 4 people in, I think you need to bet the pot, or perhaps a little more, to establish your hand and try to take it down right there. I probably would have fired 150 or so. Your move on the turn was probably overly agressive considering the 4 callers. With 4 callers, good chance one is slowplaying a set. Based on his call on the turn, I would probably put him on a set. I probably would have just bet another 150 or so on the turn, if not check, then check folded the river. How did it turn out?

[john smith]

3 callers.

[EnderFFX]

You have three callers.
You have bad position.
You bet out on the flop, and everyone calls.

At what point do you think you are ahead? If you throw all your chips in the middle the only people that are going to call you are the people with monster draws, and people that dominate you. And even then the draws may not call you with only one card to go.

You are risking 600 to win 440, with three people yet to act. Your bet looks like desparation, like a draw. Anyone with an overpair, a set, a straight, two pair, is going to call.

[Raiser]

I agree with a lot of what you say, but saying that I'll only get called by people with monster draws and those that dominate me is a little silly at this level.

I will get called here a lot by someone with A8 or the like. Any overpairs would have likely re-raised me by now considering the coordination of the board. No draw hit on that turn blank.

PUKE, this hand made me uncomfortable. I don't like pushing either, but I didn't, and don't, know how else to play it. I felt my hand was too good to just lay down. Do you bet the turn here?

I think the only two plays are to make a conservative value bet on the turn or to check fold. Either one would be fine, and it just depends on your style and instincts. I think the AI move was to agressive into 3 people at that early stage.

[pooh74]

If I am going to play hand like this, meaning, agressively, I am going to play it very agressively...IOW, I am doubling up, taking the pot down PF or on a favorable flop such as this, or I am starting up another one. I will raise much bigger preflop, and/or I will over bet the flop looking for a raise.

You played it ver inbetween like you didnt really have your mind made up...kind of "schizo" if you will

[schwza]

haven't read teh whole thread...

i would bet more on the flop. T100 or so. i'm willing to get a-i with my gutshot and the million draws that could be pushing, especially because i block 2 9 outs for 6s (and have redraws if one hits) and also block 6 outs against a hand like 67.

the turn's tough. if you bet, i like the push. a smaller bet will called, and you don't want to see any non-6 river card. although it would be really dumb, i don't rule out some kind of 2 pair / set hand for villains. i think i like a push better that checking.

[Raiser]

Thanks schwza. I feel like I played it okay only because the other options aren't that great.

Do you ever raise preflop in spots like this? I saw your JJ hand, similar to this one in many ways and you didn't raise that one, so that's probably my answer.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks schwza. I feel like I played it okay only because the other options aren't that great.

Do you ever raise preflop in spots like this? I saw your JJ hand, similar to this one in many ways and you didn't raise that one, so that's probably my answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, this really is similar to my JJ hand. hadn't even really noticed that. yeah, i like the complete with 99 here. i'd raise lighter in your hand than mine b/c the limpers are LP and the blinds are high, but it's still a complete for me in your hand.

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]
PUKE, this hand made me uncomfortable. I don't like pushing either, but I didn't, and don't, know how else to play it. I felt my hand was too good to just lay down.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry but I don't see a pair of nines (overpair or no) as too good to lay down in level 2 of a SNG. It's easy to fall in love with overpairs but it's still just a pair. I don't go all in with a pair when 3 other people are telling me they have something.

I also think raising preflop might have eliminated some of your problems later on. If I'm going to limp with a pp early on, then it's for set value only - I'm not losing a lot of chips if I don't hit my set.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PUKE, this hand made me uncomfortable. I don't like pushing either, but I didn't, and don't, know how else to play it. I felt my hand was too good to just lay down.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry but I don't see a pair of nines (overpair or no) as too good to lay down in level 2 of a SNG. It's easy to fall in love with overpairs but it's still just a pair. I don't go all in with a pair when 3 other people are telling me they have something.

I also think raising preflop might have eliminated some of your problems later on. If I'm going to limp with a pp early on, then it's for set value only - I'm not losing a lot of chips if I don't hit my set.

[/ QUOTE ]

how likely is it that someone is slowplaying on an uber-draw board? what is hero behind to on the flop? i'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not that likely.

[ilya]

The turn card is so nice that I think you have to push though it's a bit scary doing it into 3 callers, what with people neglecting to raise their big hands on drawy boards in the $22s. But you are often ahead, are getting called by many worse hands, and have anywhere from 6 to as many as 12 outs if you're behind.

Preflop is standard, I would never raise here.

I think the flop is the key, and most difficult, street. Your hand may well be best, but even when it is, it's often not ahead by much. And lots of turn cards can ruin it. Since you are out of position and not really sure where you are, I think you want to keep the pot small or end the hand quickly, so as to avoid difficult decisions later in the hand. What you really don't want I think is to go into the turn with chips left and looking at a big, especially a big multiway, pot. Soooo...I think I like checking...if it somehow gets checked around, the pot will be small on the turn and you can either bet out or check/fold depending on the card. If someone bets the flop, you can fold to a lot of action or check-raise all-in, ensuring you won't have any tough decisions to make later.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
The turn card is so nice that I think you have to push though it's a bit scary doing it into 3 callers, what with people neglecting to raise their big hands on drawy boards in the $22s. But you are often ahead, are getting called by many worse hands, and have anywhere from 6 to as many as 12 outs if you're behind.

Preflop is standard, I would never raise here.

I think the flop is the key, and most difficult, street. Your hand may well be best, but even when it is, it's often not ahead by much. And lots of turn cards can ruin it. Since you are out of position and not really sure where you are, I think you want to keep the pot small or end the hand quickly, so as to avoid difficult decisions later in the hand. What you really don't want I think is to go into the turn with chips left and looking at a big, especially a big multiway, pot. Soooo...I think I like checking...if it somehow gets checked around, the pot will be small on the turn and you can either bet out or check/fold depending on the card. If someone bets the flop, you can fold to a lot of action or check-raise all-in, ensuring you won't have any tough decisions to make later.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where my shtty opinion differs from you all. I think your preflop and post flop decisions should be very directly connected here. IOW, maybe I am being overly simplistic, but I don't want to play even THIS flop heavily when I am OOP and the whole table is in the hand. IF, on the other hand, I feel my hand is BEST PF, I might make a huge raise and pretend I have AA. In the SB I don't want to get too involved unless I am going for broke or I am playing it passively for set value.

My point is, I feel its too late to play this flop aggressively...I have defined my route PF, and even this flop shouldnt change it too much...if I check and I can stand to call one bet with rest folding, Ill raise...otherwise I am gone, its not worth it anymore bc the trouble this coordinated flop can cause me.

So IOW i am either treating this hand like it is AA, or 22...Fact is, its neither, but I like to establish my mood PF, not on a flop bc it has "undercards". Thats trouble.

[KingDan]

I like a flop check. I will CR often, but if there is a lot of action before you, you can lay-down.
Not that big a deal if it gets checked around