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View Full Version : AK Sooooooted, River play...?


Vavavoom
09-23-2005, 04:23 AM
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG ($292.15)
UTG+1 ($108.50)
MP1 ($54.45)
MP2 ($110.60)
MP3 ($112.70)
CO ($72.95)
Button ($126.25)
Hero ($115.15)
BB ($194)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls $2, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $6</font>, Hero calls $5, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $4, MP3 calls $4.

Flop: ($26) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $2</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $8</font>, Hero calls $8, UTG calls $6.

Turn: ($50) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $20</font>, UTG calls $20, Button folds.

Was my turn bet donkish, should I have check-raised...?

River: ($90) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

I'm first to act ??? Whats my play.....

Jimbio
09-23-2005, 08:00 AM
The turn bet isnt terrible, you obviously got the button to fold, and even when called, you got outs to a better hand, the nuts even.

A check call on the turn to keep the pot small oop wouldn't be terrible as there isnt many free cards that will hurt you, and you might even get a lower flushdraw to stick around. But i still favor the bet.

The river? I'd check-call a bet as large as 50-80$, depending on reads.

The reasoning is that since you bet when the ace fell, he called.. either he got a pair of aces beat, or he's drawing to a hand that do. (sure, he might have a worse ace, but i dont see an unimproved AJ fire 2$ into a 26$ pot in a 4-handed pot.)

By checking instead of beting on the river, you give a foiled straight and/or flushdraw a chance to bluff at the pot (bearing the unlikely 68).You might even get a worse ace to valuebet.

By betting the river, you will get his draw to fold. and hands that has you beat will simply call(or raise).

How's my line?

unlucky513
09-23-2005, 08:45 AM
your turn bet is awful.

the turn is a great card for you and an excellent spot to c/r all in.

EMcWilliams
09-23-2005, 09:53 AM
Would you consider leading the flop? You can put in a good continuation bet and a good semibluff. I dont like the check call on the flop. I like leading out the turn, as you had just got so much better. Im not huge on check-raises (cause mine never seem to work). Check call a moderate bet on the river. IMO I think you played the hand a little too passivly.

jhall23
09-23-2005, 09:55 AM
What was your flop plan on this hand? Where you trying to c/r all in, but then just called an audible cause of the crazy odd's you were being laid?

I play this flop fast. Lead/3 bet or c/r all in depending on stack sizes etc. If PFR typically makes a standard continuation bet close to pot then your stack size looks good for a c/r all in here.

Vavavoom
09-23-2005, 09:57 AM
My passive play has been costing me money..I know that for a fact.....

Last night, I played AQ aggressively twice....and both times it cost me my stack on UB...

AQ AQ9 flop......vs 99
AQ AQJ flop......vs JJ

I felt that leading the flop would have caused some people to fold...I feel that raising when action returned to me, was my best action...

EMcWilliams
09-23-2005, 09:59 AM
Those are just instances of bad beats. Im sure most of us lose our stack in those situations. I still lead this flop. Dont let past results like that skew you from making what you know is the right play.

Vavavoom
09-23-2005, 10:04 AM
Yeah I know, I didn't mean to mention the bad beats in that way. I was trying to indicate that I'm trying to accumulate chips with the best hand, and that By pushing the flop or turn wouldn't have got me the chips in such a sense...

TheWorstPlayer
09-23-2005, 10:22 AM
UTG has 68 or a worse spade draw here a lot. I raise the flop to force out people with marginal pairs so that you can win the pot without improving against UTG. And if people call behind you, no big deal because you have a great draw.

Edit: This time I really did mess up the position. Since you're in the SB, this is the most beautiful set up for bet/3-bet all-in against the BN preflop raiser. You can trap everyone in the middle. How awesome will it be to bet and get called by a worse flush draw, BN raises, you push, worse flush draw calls, BN folds, you win a huge pot unimproved on the river?

This is another case of looking at your stack size and seeing where you have the most equity. With a huge draw like this, you have the most equity on the flop. So try to determine the best line to get it all in on the flop. If you miss on the turn, then you will lose a lot of equity. So you don't want to get a lot in there. In the other hand, you have the most equity on a blank turn. So you should set it up so that you can easily get it all in on a blank turn. You would do that by betting flop and then pushing turn. Here, you get it all in on the flop by betting the flop and then pushing over a raise.

orange
09-23-2005, 12:02 PM
Agree. Bet/3 bet is the way to go.

MTBlue
09-23-2005, 12:30 PM
The check call the flop is fine is passive and conservative but there is nothing wrong with it. The donk turn bet however I really don't like. You have an excellent draw and probably the best hand but you are put in bad situation if you get raised all-in by the button (do you call? do you fold? neither option really seems right). I check call the flop, I also check call the turn unimproved, and then lead on the river if I have improved.