Are you a scumbag if you escape serving on a jury?

[Warik]

This has been bugging me for about a day.

I had jury duty yesterday. For those not familiar with how it works, you sit in a room with hundreds of other angry people and waste a day. You get called a few times to be interviewed by a judge and some lawyers for a particular case, then they decide if you're going to be on the jury. If you get picked, 2-3 more days of your life are gone forever. If you don't, you go back to the waiting room until they call you again.

If you don't get picked all day, you're off the hook for a year.

This was for civil court. I got called twice and effortlessly got dismissed (most assuredly by the defense) both times. Many other members of the potential jury had PERFECT opportunities to escape and did not seem to take advantage of them for some reason. Example: Both cases were related to auto insurance. The lawyers asked if anyone was insured by these people. Some people said yes. They were all asked if they would be biased one way or the other since they were insured by these people. Believe it or not, they ALL said "no I wouldn't be biased."

Well, I wasn't insured by the insurance companies, but when asked, I said that I was biased against insurance companies because I believe premiums are too high, especially for one in my age+gender+marital status group, and that I've had bad experiences with insurance agencies in the past and so I did not believe I could be a fair juror.

I don't feel like a scumbag because I got off (after all, I was completely truthful, not like I lied under oath or anything), but I do feel a bit guilty that it is my civic duty according to the Constitution and that I managed to escape.

So... am I (or are we) assholes if we can avoid having to serve on a jury with 100% certainty every single time, or are we fulfilling our civic duty and being upstanding citizens by SHOWING UP for potential jury selection, and it is not our fault that we don't get picked as long as we're perfectly honest?

[pokerdirty]

this is what you get for exercising your right to vote.

[rohjoh]

I showed up for jury duty in shorts and was instantly dismissed. They did not say you could not wear shorts, and I fugured if I got a day off, I was going to dress like I had a day off.

[PocketJokers72]

If I ever went to trial for something (civil or criminal), I would be petrified by the simple fact that my fate was going to be decided by 12 people who were too dumb to get out of jury duty.

Hooray Bench-Trial!

[4_2_it]

I look forward to performing my civic duty, but alas never get selected to serve on the jury.

Last time I was asked by the prosecutor if I was biased against law enforcement and I said, "Absolutely not. Nobody really believes that police go around arresting innocent people, do they?" I was immediately excused after that answer. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
this is what you get for exercising your right to vote.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not complaining about it... what I'm trying to establish here is: Am I fulfilling my civic duty by SHOWING UP, but making every effort to get excused WITHOUT lying?

Compare it to seducing a drunk chick. I said all the things that needed to be said in order to achieve a certain outcome, but I didn't have to tell any lies because I was smart enough to not have a need to do so.

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
If I ever went to trial for something (civil or criminal), I would be petrified by the simple fact that my fate was going to be decided by 12 people who were too dumb to get out of jury duty.

[/ QUOTE ]

The converse is true as well... if somebody is on trial for murder, would it really be fair for the accused, who is entitled to a jury of his peers, to have me on the jury obviously NOT being one of his peers since I'm not stupid enough to kill somebody and get caught?

I would have to make a HUGE effort not to wipe my ass with "beyond a reasonable doubt."

[pokerdirty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is what you get for exercising your right to vote.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not complaining about it... what I'm trying to establish here is: Am I fulfilling my civic duty by SHOWING UP, but making every effort to get excused WITHOUT lying?

Compare it to seducing a drunk chick. I said all the things that needed to be said in order to achieve a certain outcome, but I didn't have to tell any lies because I was smart enough to not have a need to do so.

[/ QUOTE ]

if this makes you a scumbag, it makes about 200 million other americans scumbags as well.

[private joker]

I had a fascinating experience a couple years ago when selected for jury duty. See, I sort of liked it at first, and the first time I was called I happily said all the right things and got picked. I was in grad school at the time and welcomed the vacation. I was even chosen as the foreman of the jury -- it was a ridiculous civil case and we basically told the plaintiff to go blow himself.

But that was it for me, I didn't want to bother with it again. So I get called down to L.A. Superior Court downtown and I'm told ahead of time by a lawyer that if you act really opinionated, you'll get off. No lawyer wants some mouthy guy on their jury -- they want sheep they can convince.

So I go into the courtroom and it turns out the case is about a gang-banger accused of shooting a cop. Sounds like a big deal and a lengthy criminal trial. Well I'm not going to deal with this nonsense. So when they get to questioning me, I make sure to have some "opinions."

[The prosecutor in this dialgoue was one of those guys with a light brown mustache and a gut, who so obviously used to be a cop and has been promoted; the judge is a middle-aged black-haired man, and the defense attorney is a younger, light-hearted type]

Prosecutor: Is there anything about this case that might bias you?
Me: Well, the fact that the victim in question is a cop might bias me.
Prosecutor: Why is that?
Me: Um, I don't want to say that I *hate* cops, but...
Judge: I believe you just did.
Me: Oh well, I don't, but I don't have a very high opinion of them, and I think I'd probably be sympathetic to a defendant who had an issue with a cop.
Prosecutor: Don't you think police officers are here to protect us from potential criminals who may be running around our streets with guns?
Me: Actually, a police officer is someone who is running around our streets with a gun.
Defense Attorney: But if you were shown all of the evidence, wouldn't you be able to make a fair and unbiased decision in this particular case?
Me: Well, if I believed the evidence favored the cop, yes I would make a fair decision -- but I'm telling you it would take a *lot* of evidence for me to favor a cop.

[At this point, the Prosecutor goes over to the Judge and they sidebar briefly and quietly]

Jude: Juror #4, you may be excused. Thank you for your service.


I don't really believe in what I was saying, but I had to say something to get off that case. It was either that or say I hate gangsters, and I didn't want to get shot outside the courtroom.

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
Nobody really believes that police go around arresting innocent people, do they?"

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.st-files.de/logbuch/tng/images/001_dermaechtige/szene007.JPG

Q: "Of course [not], bringing the innocent to trial would be unfair."

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really believe in what I was saying, but I had to say something to get off that case.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should have said the opposite then. "I have a high opinion of police officers and feel they are here to protect the community. blahblahblabhalblahbahl"

The defense would have let you off quick.

The defense let me off in both cases. I saw the plaintiff in the elevator later after lunch and we just smiled & nodded at each other and he said "good luck with the next one."

I bet he wanted me on that jury soooooooooooooo bad.

[JPinAZ]

If you are ever picked to serve on a jury, be sure exercise your duty to judge the law in question as well as the facts of the case.

www.fija.org (http://www.fija.org)

[pryor15]

i got one of those letters, and was going to do the same thing you did, but it would have meant getting there at 8am. the hell with that. i got out of it before-hand by telling them i'd be out of town for a month. does that make me a scumbag?

[jdl22]

[ QUOTE ]
I do feel a bit guilty that it is my civic duty according to the Constitution and that I managed to escape.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it really in the constitution? I don't remember that.

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]

[At this point, the Prosecutor goes over to the Judge and they sidebar briefly and quietly]


[/ QUOTE ]

This was undoubtedly because they knew you were full of [censored], but cut you loose anyway.



I served on a capital murder trial in which the defendant went on a kill spree that included stabbing a nine year-old girl in the chest and cutting her 13 year-old brother's throat (they both survived and testified). He shot their dad execution style and stabbed their mom in the back.

Some of the evidence was so horrible even the judge cried on the bench.

That [censored] is now on death row.

He challenged the case using one of those anti-death penalty law firms out of NYC. Claimed incompetent defense. I recently found the transcript of the court's findings. Basically they said this guy was a stone killer. Jury decisions upheld.

I hope that piece of [censored] gets pounded in the ass every day for the rest of his worthless life; then on D-Day his sleepy shot mix is done wrong so he dies screaming in convulsions.

Anti-death penalty pantywaists may now flame.

[youtalkfunny]

ARCHIE: I served my time on the jury.

MIKE: You did?

EDITH: Well, almost. He was thrown off because he insulted the defense attorney.

ARCHIE: He asked me what I thought of capital punishment, and I told him.

EDITH: For 30 minutes.

ARCHIE: It's a proven fact that capital punishment is a well-known detergent to crime.

MIKE: That's false! Capital punishment has *never* been proven to be a "deterant" to crime.

ARCHIE: We believe it is in this house.

[tonypaladino]

I lied to get on a jury.

It was right after Christmas, and I was really stressed at work, so sitting on a jury would have been relaxing.

A guy was suing New York City, and the first thing they asked was "Is anyone a current or former employee of the City of New York?"

I said no, even though I worked for the Board of Ed in the past.

[jakethebake]

If you're just going to try to get out of actually serving, why bother to show up at all. They really can't do anything if you just don't show up.

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it really in the constitution? I don't remember that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent point. Just checked the Constitution and it's not explicitly stated. I suppose it's implied since the accused are entitled to a trial by jury and the said jury must be selected in some fashion.

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
Capital punishment has *never* been proven to be a "deterant" to crime.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had my speech for a response to this comment rehearsed if it ever came up.

Death penalty isn't a deterrent... and it's not supposed to be. It's a way of permanently removing a dangerous criminal from society without a recurring annual cost to tax payers. A cold-blooded murderer is a useless piece of garbage that contributes nothing to society. Why should the taxpayers spend money on him year after year? Or risk him being paroled or escaping? Or killing a guard? Or finding some way to reproduce?

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Capital punishment has *never* been proven to be a "deterant" to crime.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had my speech for a response to this comment rehearsed if it ever came up.

Death penalty isn't a deterrent... and it's not supposed to be. It's a way of permanently removing a dangerous criminal from society without a recurring annual cost to tax payers. A cold-blooded murderer is a useless piece of garbage that contributes nothing to society. Why should the taxpayers spend money on him year after year? Or risk him being paroled or escaping? Or killing a guard? Or finding some way to reproduce?

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally I just believe in punishment.

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're just going to try to get out of actually serving, why bother to show up at all. They really can't do anything if you just don't show up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Failure to go to court on the date you have been summoned for jury service is a criminal infraction. =)

Think of it as cheating on your taxes... the short term benefits are wonderful, but the potential long term hardships you may face in the unlikely event that you get caught far outweigh the inconvenience of showing up.

Besides... my employer is required by law to pay me for that day of absence... cha-ching!

[Warik]

For those who voted on Yes, I'm a scumbag for avoiding jury duty, how do you feel about the others who avoided jury duty? Not EVERYONE gets picked for trial. The other 5 jurors who didn't get picked all answered their questions honestly. If they are scumbags too, why? If they are NOT scumbags, then why am I if I also answered all of the questions honestly?

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
A cold-blooded murderer is a useless piece of garbage that contributes nothing to society. Why should the taxpayers risk... him finding some way to reproduce?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your points are reasonable (although I'm not sure I think they're strong enough reasons to kill someone) until this one. Is there a serial killing gene?

[Yeti]

Was the defendant a negro?

[ QUOTE ]
For those who voted on Yes, I'm a scumbag for avoiding jury duty, how do you feel about the others who avoided jury duty? Not EVERYONE gets picked for trial. The other 5 jurors who didn't get picked all answered their questions honestly. If they are scumbags too, why? If they are NOT scumbags, then why am I if I also answered all of the questions honestly?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are not a scumbag if you answered the questions truthfully.

You are a scumbag if you make stuff up to get off of jury duty. Not only is it avoidance of a civic duty that falls on the rest of us if you don't do your share, but prospective jurors are generally sworn in before answering the questions, so you are violating your oath to tell the truth if you make things up.

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
Your points are reasonable (although I'm not sure I think they're strong enough reasons to kill someone) until this one. Is there a serial killing gene?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe there is, but that wasn't my rationale.

I believe that criminals become criminals as a result of their surroundings and influences, not necessarily because of their biology (though biology may come into play in one form or another).

However, what sort of surroundings do you think a child with a father serving a life sentence for murder is going to have considering he's going to be raised by a woman stupid enough to get pregnant by a convicted felon who will never breathe free air again? Recipe for disaster.

[Warik]

[ QUOTE ]
Not only is it avoidance of a civic duty

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait... that was one of the questions I was trying to have answered. I got summoned for jury duty and I showed up. Does that meet my obligation for civic duty, or does it go beyond that? If you're smart enough, you can truthfully answer any relatively open-ended question asked of you in such a way that you appear to be an unfavorable candidate for a jury. Are you avoiding civic duty by being so candid knowing what the result will be?

That was my "problem," so to speak. I did not tell any lies, but I did intentionally volunteer information (truthful information) that would require the defense to be completely brain-dead if they allowed me to serve on the jury.