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View Full Version : How bad is folding bottom set here?


APatterson
09-22-2005, 03:48 PM
$1/$2 Bodog. 9 seater, but only 6 at table.
Just sat down for one orbit, so no reads yet.

Villain CO-1 $187
Hero CO $221.50
Btn $131
SB $274.5
BB $51
UTG $174.17

Hero dealt 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG folds, Villain calls $2, Hero raises to $6, Btn folds, SB calls $6, BB folds, Villain calls $4

Pot $20

Flop 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif

SB checks, Villain bets $19, Hero raises to $60, SB folds, Villain raises all in for $162, Hero folds

In hindsight my read of opponents cards is different to that at the time. Is this clearly wrong to fold here?

wdeadwyler
09-22-2005, 03:50 PM
Even IF your opponent has the nuts you have odds to boat. This is bad. Very bad. You would do much better to never fold a set again (barring massive overbets with 4 to a flush or str8 on board)

APatterson
09-22-2005, 03:57 PM
You're right this is bad, I am 35% against 97 (unlikely as this hand is) and getting approx 2.6/1.

May I never do this again /images/graemlins/frown.gif

jenson
09-22-2005, 04:11 PM
Pardon my naivete, but if villain currently has you beat, isn't more likely that villain has trip 6's or 8's? If that is the case, you are less likely to improve, right?

amoeba
09-22-2005, 04:11 PM
if you know he won't do this with pair + draw hands like 87 or 2 pair, then fold is fine.

I actually think the call is close.

jhall23
09-22-2005, 04:20 PM
I probably call here too, but don't think folding is super bad if you know your opponent.

Change it to mid/top set then it get's much worse.

Or if the flop was the same ranks but had a flush draw it get's much worse.

wdeadwyler
09-22-2005, 04:34 PM
66 or 88 are the only hands you arent getting your price against, you only need to be good 33% of the time here. Call.

APatterson
09-22-2005, 05:29 PM
My initial thoughts were that an all-in like this usually means a set or two pair. I thought two pair was unlikely and a set likely plus there was the straight possibilities. Hence the fold.

Taking comments on board, it is quite close, I think.
I am representing an overpair by my pre-flop raise then large flop raise, so opponent is representing a hand that can beat a big pair. Looking at his pre-flop play (limp then call), I think 66-TT most likely. I can't believe 97 etc at these games, they're quite tight usually and surely AA-QQ raises. I think the typical opponent here would check 77, so that leaves 66,88, 99, TT (poss JJ). As I am representing a big pair would he really bet 99,TT that big?

Or is this analysis just contrived in hindsight? /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Maybe my fold isn't so bad. I'm not sure now.

Jocke_F
09-22-2005, 05:55 PM
remeber its short handed at the momemt so his hand range is probably larger than a limp from early position if it was a full table and I think he calls that raise for 4 bucks with any hand he limped with. Without a nit read on villain I could never find a fold here.