TT UTG

[TheDudeChad]

Pacific Poker 1-2
6 players, 6 max

BB is loose preflop, he will play any two. He has shown moderate aggression postflop.

Raise flop instead of turn? Fold to turn 3 bet? Fold to river bet?


Preflop: Hero is UTG with T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Hero raises, MP folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (10SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7.5BB) 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (13.5BB) A /images/graemlins/club.gif
BB bets, Hero calls.

[jrz1972]

Raise the flop. Do not let overcards see a cheap turn.

I am reraising the flop. Our hand isnt good enough to slowplay with 2 to a flush or straight. Then I bet the turn and if he raises me I will call down to the river.

[Fantam]

Raise the flop. Unless someone has a 5, you probably have the best hand and want to make it expensive for overcards to call.

Raising the flop, would have increased your chances of playing the rest of the hand HU against BB. Then if BB continues to bet you would like to see a showdown as cheaply as possible.

You achieved the same result by raising the turn, but it was probably more expensive than it would have been if you had raised the flop instead.

[Paradigm]

what is your logic for raising the flop but not the turn? raise the flop and make the other players call two bets cold with their missed hands

[Fantam]

After I raise the flop:

If (a) BB 3-bets and the other players fold, I would call down HU against BB.

If (b) BB calls and the other players cold/call or fold, I would bet the turn if checked to.

Basically I would be raising the flop to try to play the rest of the hand HU against BB. Then if BB led the turn I would call down. However if BB checked the turn to me I would bet.

Hope that makes my play a bit clearer.

[12ozLongneck]

Grunch: Raise flop. Make everyone pay to draw out on you.

If you're in late position instead of EP, I believe that the concept of waiting until the turn to raise that Miller discusses in SSHE comes into play, but I could be wrong.

[Reqtech]

Raise the flop. If it was just heads up, I would wait until turn to raise, but since you have five opponents, you need to protect your hand against overcards and gutshots.

[RandBriscoe]

I like waiting for the turn, pot is relatively large. Anyone hanging around on the flop will probably call for two cold anyway I suspect.

If we raise the flop we might get checked to on the turn and that would suck. There are tons of cards we'd rather not see on the turn. Potentially: the case 5 or 7 (assuming someone has the 3rd), any heart (considering we only have the T), any overcard...

I think we wait for a safe turn, let BB bet into us and then face the field with two. Getting 3-bet on the turn sucks. I call down.

In short, I play it the same.

I don't think TT is strong enough to wait for the turn. What if the A (or any overcard) had fallen on the turn instead. That had probably would have forced our hero to fold if BB bet with 2 players behind us. If we held AA or KK it would be a different matter.

In this hand I would probably raise the flop and hope that CO and button folded and then call down/bet if checked to. Since BB plays any 2 I think the river call is fine.

[RandBriscoe]

I'm not sure at .5/1 that any Aces are folding this flop getting at least 6.5:1. If it come son the turn we're doomed regardless.

Having said that, I know if this hand came up for me tonight, I raise the flop...

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
I like waiting for the turn, pot is relatively large. Anyone hanging around on the flop will probably call for two cold anyway I suspect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you suppose this? A lot of playes will peel with as little as an ace-overcard, but will fold that hand if it's two to them.

[ QUOTE ]
If we raise the flop we might get checked to on the turn and that would suck. There are tons of cards we'd rather not see on the turn. Potentially: the case 5 or 7 (assuming someone has the 3rd), any heart (considering we only have the T), any overcard...

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing you do will fold out a 5, and probably nothing you do will fold out a 7 (though you don't mind a 7 calling you anyway). Nothing you do will fold out a /images/graemlins/heart.gif draw, and nothing you do will fold out an oesd. All of those hands are going to the river.

It's the overcards and gutshots that you should be targeting here. You can get them out on the flop if you raise.

[ QUOTE ]
I think we wait for a safe turn, let BB bet into us and then face the field with two.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with this is that if an overcard comes on the turn, you'll often lose the pot to a hand you could have folded out on the flop.

[TheDudeChad]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing you do will fold out a 5, and probably nothing you do will fold out a 7 (though you don't mind a 7 calling you anyway). Nothing you do will fold out a /images/graemlins/heart.gif draw, and nothing you do will fold out an oesd. All of those hands are going to the river.

It's the overcards and gutshots that you should be targeting here. You can get them out on the flop if you raise.


[/ QUOTE ]

I like this logic here, makes sense. When playing this hand, I thought it looked very similar to the waiting for the turn hand from SSHE. Raising would give my opponents 6.5 : 1 to see the turn if I raised the flop, so I figured I would see if the turn was safe then raise the turn to get out the gutshots and overcards. I could have accomplished this on the flop. Thanks for the input from all.

Results: <font color="white"> BB shows 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif , 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif </font>

By the way...standard calldown after being 3 bet on the turn?