$33: 2 Pair First Level

Sorry no hand history.

Preflop: Blinds 10-20. Second hand of the tourney.

Relevant stacks: Hero = 1480, BB = 1500.

UTG+2 and CO+1 limps. Hero limps with [ Ac 9s ] on the button. SB and BB check/calls.

Pot is 100.

Flop: [As Jc 9c]

Checked to hero. Hero bets 50, bb calls and everyone else folds.

Pot is 200.

Turn: As Jc 9c [3d]

BB checks. Hero bet 90, BB raises to 180, Hero raises to 300, BB raises to 420, I call.

Pot is 1040.

River: As Jc 9c 3d [7c]

BB goes all-in. Hero ???

Edit: Comments on all streets are welcome and preferred.

[TruFloridaGator]

Fold Pre-flop, then move in after his raise on the turn.

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Fold Pre-flop, then move in after his raise on the turn.

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Almost any two cards are playable on the button at this buyin when it costs only 20 chips to see the flop in a pot of 100. Some people will bluff in a 5-way pot with nothing and I'd like to take their chips now rather than taking it from someone else's stack later.

By the way, I would have pushed on the turn but I'm not ready to go broke early in the tournament with 2 pair when I can very much find a better situation later on in the tournament.With a set, yes, but not with 2 pair.

What would you guys think he had?

Any thoughts? I do realize that the turn is very debatable, but I wasn't willing to shove all my chips in with 2 pair this early in what started as a multiway pot when he coulda had a set all along. I'd need more reasoning than just 'shove it in'.

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I do realize that the turn is very debatable, but I wasn't willing to shove all my chips in with 2 pair this early in what started as a multiway pot when he coulda had a set all along.

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But you're willing to burn a third of your stack and then fold to a potential river bluff with it? If you're really worried about a set, you can't re-raise the turn. What's he got a set of though? Threes? Nines? If he caught his two outer on the turn, so be it. I think it's much more likely that he's on a draw or playing a pair of aces or jacks. Ax of clubs playing this way wouldn't blow my mind, but you've got the Ac, so that's out.

Personally, I lead the turn for more like 2/3 of the pot, and I'm probably all-in if he comes over the top. There are just too many hands he could have here that you're beating on the turn to let him get to the river without paying for it.

I'm also insta-mucking this pre-flop at this point in the tourney. If you're not going to make money on two pair here, there's really not much point playing it. You really going to play top pair-9 kicker hard, or hoping for a 9-high un-coordianted flop?

[EnderFFX]

set or AJ, i'm willing to bet set by the way he played.

And i also fold pre-flop but I also play the 800 chip tourneys so the few chips in the beginning hurt your stack more.

Pre - fine to limp.

Flop - Should have raised more than half the pot. You have flopped a very strong hand, but not strong enough, particularly online, to only bet 1/2 the pot. I would bet between 3/4 and the pot, maybe a little more. Bad mistake there IMO.

Turn - Again, you underbet badly. Pot was 200, with a relatively harmless card and the clubs still lurking, my first bet would be the pot, the I would immediately move all in if he raised. The only thing I would even be remotely worried about would be a set of nines, but you should not worry about monsters in the closet. Do not let him catch his flush or a higher two pair.

River - A clear fold IMO. You have let him catch his flush more than likely, or he has a set of nines. Based on the quick all-in, I would guess he is an inexperienced player who caught a flush and assumes you will call him. He may also have had a pair of aces and a flush draw. Either way, you still have plenty of chips left to cut your losses and move on.

Next time, protect your hand on the flop and turn.

NM.

Thank you for your replies =).

I limp with A9 late here because of bad,bad players and I have position, which I rate as the single most important attribute in a multi-way pot against bad players. If I had a choice between AA UTG and J6o on the button in a 5-way unraised pot on the first level, I'd choose J6o.

The reason why I didn't bet too hard on the turn was because...well, I didn't want to go broke. I'm not afraid of monsters under the bed, it's just that my hand is not that spectacular. Knowing that now though...I probably shouldn't have reraised him. I just figured that if he merely called my reraise, then I would know that he was on a flush draw and not a set.

Hero calls after 45 seconds. BB shows Qd 7h. Hero takes the pot.

My logic was this. If he had a flush draw, why would he re-reraise me on the turn? I showed some serious strength and he's risking me going all-in because I'm obviously not going to fold for a minimum re-reraise. If he's an idiot that doesn't mind re-reraising and then calling all-in on a flush draw, then he would have attempted to scare me out with bigger than a minimum raise and re-reraise. I put him on a set here, and a badly played set at that since he's letting me 'draw to a flush' (although we know that I don't have it).

So then why would he go all-in on the river? I really couldn't put him on a flush here for the reason stated. So what about a set? When I simply called that re-reraise, I represented at least the possibility of a donk reraising on a flush draw. If he's the type that would go all-in with a set on this board, then he's also the type that would call an all-in from me. So why risk his whole stack when he could have just called whatever bet that I make, which may or may not have been an all-in?

The only hand that can really match his actions is Ac-3c for a 2 pair flush draw, but fortunately I held the ace of clubs so that was not possible.

At that point I thought that I had him beat. If he was smart, he wouldn't have played a flush or set that way. If he was stupid, he wouldn't have played a flush or set that way. He had at best a pair of aces.

I'm not result-oriented though. How was my logic? I was honestly 95% confident to call this all-in after thinking it through.

Any input? I'm really not the type that would usually risk my entire stack very early in the tournament with 2 pair unless I had a really good reason to do it. Can anyone put him on a hand that can beat 2 pair?

[splashpot]

A9 is an easy easy fold preflop this early in the tournament. I'd fold AJ and maybe even AQ. It's just not worth the risk for so few chips. The real game starts mid-tourny. When he raises your turn bet, I'd probably just push. The pot at that point is decently sized and there are a number of draws that could beat you. Get your money in when you have the best of it and be the aggressor.

[curtains]

Preflop - calling is fine

Flop - I would bet more than 50. The board is too draw heavy for me to recommend such a mini sized bet. I'd make it about 75-100.

Turn - Again your bet is too small for my tastes. The min check raise is annoying. Because of your tiny bets youve allowed him to raise such a small amount. If you had just worked on building the pot, this raise would be much larger and make the hand easier to play. Again I hate your minisized 3-bet.

River - Well based on the turn action in your hand....I don't know, his holding/action doesn't make so much sense. I don't think calling is so bad here, I just have a hunch. Against solid opponents your hand would be garbage at this point after the 4 bet on the turn.


Anyway this hand is really weird. Against a solid player I would flat call the turn after being check raised.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
A9 is an easy easy fold preflop this early in the tournament. I'd fold AJ and maybe even AQ. It's just not worth the risk for so few chips. The real game starts mid-tourny. When he raises your turn bet, I'd probably just push. The pot at that point is decently sized and there are a number of draws that could beat you. Get your money in when you have the best of it and be the aggressor.

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Folding AQ+AJ on the button here will cost a good player money. Even a tightass like myself will call with A9o on the button and 75 BBs, although I don't think its mandatory.

The minibets are simply because people will call bets whether it's big or small at this level. My 2 pair is good enough to build the pot with, but I don't want to commit myself to the pot so early.

I think the key here is that there are plenty of people that play bad. I honestly cannot price people out of the pot for their alleged flush draws with my 2 pair because the implied odds make it so they were actually right to draw to it. Say I did bet 100 on the flop and the turn. I can't know if the guy was smart or not, if he bet a decent amount on the river then I have to call anyways because there's just as good of a chance of him having the flush as there are that he has a pair of aces. With no reads, it's more likely than not that it's incorrect to fold to a river bet this early with 2 pair. But I don't want to risk my whole stack on whether the other guy is an overbetter or just plain insane.

If this was a higher buyin then I would have played it differently, but when there's such a high percentage of people that believe their pair of aces is good at the river on this board, I wouldn't want to commit myself on a nearly coinflip decision based on whether he's bluffing at the river or not. Without any reads, my 2 pair is a coinflip to an all-in out of nowhere. I don't want to stick big bets in on the flop and turn just to find out that he's a clown that goes all-in on the river, and then have a seriously tough decision as to whether he's an idiot that just wants to gamble, or if he's an idiot that overbet a legitimate hand.

This reminded me why I did a mini-reraise on the turn. It was actually simply giving him a chance to drive me out of the pot with a huge re-reraise. That mini-raise by him on the turn made no sense at all, since a flush draw or set shouldn't be played that way. By mini-reraising, I can figure out whether he's drawing to a flush or he has a set, because my mini-reraise made no sense either. He can't put me on any hand right now because that reraise was so stupid, so if he had a set then he has to shove those chips in. If he was on a flush draw, then whooptie. It might make a small flush too scared of a higher flush to bet hard on the river at least.

I just don't see solid opponents that would have mini re-reraised on that turn and then went all-in on the river. To me, this is the most important part of the thread: Can you think of any hand played this way that can beat my 2-pair?

[curtains]

You could easily be losing.Your opponents are not solid, they are generally very bad and you will not be able to "put them on hands". Sometimes you'll be winning and sometimes you'll be losing, but I don't want to sit around and try to figure out my opponents range, when my opponent in this spot could be so random.