I told my boss off today and I quit my job!!! I need Advice.

[Talk2BigSteve]

Today was a bad day at work. I went in and as soon as I got in the door all hell broke loose, we have had major issues with the hurricane, and with service calls we have almost tripled our call volume.

I was told I had to do diciplinary meetings all morning, and regardless of what they said in the meetings I was given a list of who I was to let go.

So that was my breaking point.

I told him I already cleaned out one entire office for him and in a time of triple our normal call volume I was not going to start playing executioner again, when everyone needs to be answering calls on the phone. I told him he could go [censored] himself and find another pawn to do his bidding because I quit, and I clocked out and left.

Then I got home and I called the broker in charge of my retirement account from when I lived in Texas and told him to just cash out everything, pay the taxes and penalties, and call me with a total. A Half an hour later he called and after everything is paid including the Taxes, he was overnighting me a check for $83,442.03.

***Caution Poker Content***

I only play $2/$4 right now although I actually am doing good, I have a 3.29BB/100 average over 178,000 hands. I don't want to move up right now as I still think I have much to learn about poker. 4-Tabling right now I am making about $25-30 an hour average.

***End Poker Content***

What should I do with my money??? I still have 2 years left of college. Plus I have to do a 1 year apprenticeship. I can't believe I quit my job, but I did it.

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[istewart]

You play poker? WTF?

[handsome]

[ QUOTE ]
You play poker? WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

[jokerthief]

It's hard to advise you. The best advice I can give is to go out to the bar and pick up some skank chick. That ought to straighten you out and give you some confidence to procede.

Good luck!

[handsome]

[ QUOTE ]
It's hard to advise you. The best advice I can give is to go out to the bar and pick up some skank chick. That ought to straighten you out and give you some confidence to procede.

Good luck!

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhh...

[Talk2BigSteve]

[ QUOTE ]
It's hard to advise you. The best advice I can give is to go out to the bar and pick up some skank chick . That ought to straighten you out and give you some confidence to procede.

Good luck!

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you bad advice guy's alter ego?

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[MelchyBeau]

just live off the money till you finish college.

Melch

[cdxx]

$84,000 on black.

seriously though, i understand quitting your job, but why would you cash out all accounts?

[Vish]

Taking out that 83k may have been a bit rash, I don't think you'll need that much. You should definitely invest what you don't need to live, but I wouldn't know how. You can probably get by nicely with that um, bridge winrate, but you should definitely play bridge for at least 3/6. Stop being a pussy.

[lu_hawk]

[ QUOTE ]


Then I got home and I called the broker in charge of my retirement account from when I lived in Texas and told him to just cash out everything, pay the taxes and penalties, and call me with a total. A Half an hour later he called and after everything is paid including the Taxes, he was overnighting me a check for $83,442.03.


[/ QUOTE ]

That was an incredibly stupid thing to do. Do you have a pressing need for $83,422.03?

[mmbt0ne]

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9984/winston5lj.jpg

Breed him, so long as he doesn't follow in his owner's footsteps. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[jdl22]

What type of job could you get now? How difficult is it to find a job now with the destruction? What are you studying?

If you can I would reccomend getting student loans. You can apply and simply tell them of your income changing. If you're full time you simply need to tell the financial aid office that you can't work because of the class schedule and hence your ability to pay from the fafsa is off. Student loans are the so called "good loans" and you can get them interest free until you graduate if you qualify for subsidized which you very well could if you have virtually no income. Even unsubsidized loans have low interest rates. This way you could live comfortably grinding out money playing [censored] and not dipping into your retirement savings. You could even invest this money and get a higher return than you would be paying for the loans, especially if you can get subsidized.

Hopefully you bounce back from this, after all you are in this situation because you are a decent human being.

[Talk2BigSteve]

[ QUOTE ]
$84,000 on black.

seriously though, i understand quitting your job, but why would you cash out all accounts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I admit it was a bit rash, but pull up the last 6 months of IBM and you will see it is tanking bad, I can find better investments I am sure.

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Talk2BigSteve]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Then I got home and I called the broker in charge of my retirement account from when I lived in Texas and told him to just cash out everything, pay the taxes and penalties, and call me with a total. A Half an hour later he called and after everything is paid including the Taxes, he was overnighting me a check for $83,442.03.


[/ QUOTE ]

That was an incredibly stupid thing to do. Do you have a pressing need for $83,422.03?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have less then 1K in my checking account right now, I have bills to pay, and my retirement account is an all or nothing cash out, so I went with the all. I am going to reinvest most of it, and keep about 10K in a money market account, so I have some on hand liquid funds if I need it.

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[cdxx]

[ QUOTE ]
I admit it was a bit rash, but pull up the last 6 months of IBM and you will see it is tanking bad, I can find better investments I am sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

i am going to assume you mean you worked at IBM and invested into its 401k/ESPP or invested in IBM in your retirement account.

if the former, ESPP has no penalties and 401k's can be rolled over into an IRA when you quit, and then you can sell and reinvest without penalties.

in the later case, you don't have to close your accounts.

disclaimer: i own some IBM stock.

[Talk2BigSteve]

[ QUOTE ]
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9984/winston5lj.jpg

Breed him, so long as he doesn't follow in his owner's footsteps. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

He has no balls. Have your pet /images/graemlins/spade.gif or neutered.

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[cdxx]

[ QUOTE ]
my retirement account is an all or nothing cash out, so I went with the all.

[/ QUOTE ]

what account is that? i am curious.

[Talk2BigSteve]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my retirement account is an all or nothing cash out, so I went with the all.

[/ QUOTE ]

what account is that? i am curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

it was an Employee Stock Purchase Plan, when our department was laid off, all the accounts were rolled to Smith Barney, and we were told that IBM would honor the plans(that is they would honor the matching(vested) part of the account) that we had, but if we ever needed to cash them out it would be 100% cash out and the account would be closed.

Does that help?

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Talk2BigSteve]

the only job I would be looking for now is a paid apprenticeship in a funeral home or at a coroner's office. I have to do 1 year of apprenticeship before I take my National Board Exam. That is in the Spring of my final year. I still have some time. I would however like to get it out of the way.

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my retirement account is an all or nothing cash out, so I went with the all.

[/ QUOTE ]

what account is that? i am curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

it was an Employee Stock Purchase Plan, when our department was laid off, all the accounts were rolled to Smith Barney, and we were told that IBM would honor the plans(that is they would honor the matching(vested) part of the account) that we had, but if we ever needed to cash them out it would be 100% cash out and the account would be closed.

Does that help?

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesn't make sense to me? ESPP shares do not require vesting. They are liquid as soon as they are purchased.
ESPP != Stock options

I also don't understand the 100% or nothing? As you accumulate ESPP shares,you can sell any amount you want.. they are just stock shares. I don't understand the rolling over part either. Outstanding stock is not convetable to anything except for cash I believe?

[johnnybeef]

i dont know how old you are, or how lavishly you live (if you are like most gay men that i have met, it could be catastrophic) but 84k can get you far. finish your education, cut your spending, get a new career.

[Talk2BigSteve]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my retirement account is an all or nothing cash out, so I went with the all.

[/ QUOTE ]

what account is that? i am curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

it was an Employee Stock Purchase Plan, when our department was laid off, all the accounts were rolled to Smith Barney, and we were told that IBM would honor the plans(that is they would honor the matching(vested) part of the account) that we had, but if we ever needed to cash them out it would be 100% cash out and the account would be closed.

Does that help?

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesn't make sense to me? ESPP shares do not require vesting. They are liquid as soon as they are purchased.
ESPP != Stock options

I also don't understand the 100% or nothing? As you accumulate ESPP shares,you can sell any amount you want.. they are just stock shares. I don't understand the rolling over part either. Outstanding stock is not convetable to anything except for cash I believe?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how to explain it, I have no concept of how the stock market works. 2 times a year we had stock purchases. Let's say on Stock day that IBM was at $100 dollars, we would pay $50(50%) for each share that we wanted. If it went up to $150 then if we were vested in the company we would get $150 if we were not vested we would get $100 the $50 we paid and the $50 it earned. I don't know how else to explain it.

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Blarg]

Jeez. That's an abnormally high return for that level.

Others could live on that money and go to school too, but you have expensive tastes. I wonder if you could keep from blowing that cash.

The idea of working in a funeral home sounds like a good one. Nothing beats on the job training, and with that cash in the bank, you don't need a good salary, just a job. And if it doesn't work out, you have the freedom to try somewhere or something else.

[roxtar]

$83k is a LOT of money to be tossing around in the short term. I'd go get another job and buy a house.

[MyTurn2Raise]

wanna stake me?

[MyTurn2Raise]

seriously...take the previous posters' advice
cashing out was rash...look for an investment vehicle for the long-term...put aside some in ETFs...come back in 30 years

finish school

[NLSoldier]

youve played almost 200k hands at 2/4??? wtf? how can you possibly stay that low that long.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

What did you do with the 23424.80 that you won at 2/4? Take it and move up in limits for god sakes!

-Craig

[siccjay]

You sound like me, except for the whole [censored] guys thing. Stop being a sissy and move up in limits. You will find the games aren't anywhere near as different as you would think. (With good table selection of course) I recently jumped limits for the first time and it's been good to me.

[lastsamurai]

Well...It was probably a smart move considering greenspan raised rates again... When it rains...it pours! Wait it out...

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38487000/jpg/_38487249_greenspan_300.jpg

If I were you I'd just go pro. Then take the $80K and buy some type of real estate.

[Evan]

Dynasty, please explain why this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3419862&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) thread got moved due to poker content but BigSteve's is staying put. Thanks.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
I was told I had to do diciplinary meetings all morning, and regardless of what they said in the meetings I was given a list of who I was to let go.
....
I told him he could go [censored] himself and find another pawn to do his bidding because I quit
....
I got home and I called the broker in charge of my retirement account from when I lived in Texas and told him to just cash out everything

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure if you're considering being a pro, but I thought I'd point this out just in case; people that make decisions like this do not have the emotional stability to be professional poker players.

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
I was told I had to do diciplinary meetings all morning, and regardless of what they said in the meetings I was given a list of who I was to let go.
....
I told him he could go [censored] himself and find another pawn to do his bidding because I quit


[/ QUOTE ]

Nah if you don't do this in this spot, then you are a sell out, working for complete c$nts who won't get their own hands dirty is dumb.

Mack

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was told I had to do diciplinary meetings all morning, and regardless of what they said in the meetings I was given a list of who I was to let go.
....
I told him he could go [censored] himself and find another pawn to do his bidding because I quit


[/ QUOTE ]

Nah if you don't do this in this spot, then you are a sell out, working for complete c$nts who won't get their own hands dirty is dumb.

Mack

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about? How is not quitting your job when your boss tells you to do something "selling out"? This is one of the stupidest posts I've ever read that was attempting to be reasonable.

[Iplayragstoo]

About time you quit that fcking job. I know after your thread last time about letting all those people go I told you you should have told him off then. At least you bucked up this time! Take your cash, invest in your game, and see where it brings you. Save 20k of that in a slush fund though in casse your game blows...

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
What are you talking about? How is not quitting your job when your boss tells you to do something "selling out"? This is one of the stupidest posts I've ever read that was attempting to be reasonable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I just think you are totally wrong, you are being paid to destroy peoples lives (even if temporarily), if the boss guy helped you it would be much better, so they have to be laid off? the least he can do is help you. The world is full of people who make decisions like that, then get someone else who gets paid less to do all the hard work. I would tell him to poke it in the hole, I don't need that kind of [censored], money isn't important enough.

Mack

[jakethebake]

SIIHP?

[BottlesOf]

[ QUOTE ]

I only play $2/$4 right now although I actually am doing good, I have a 3.29BB/100 average over 178,000 hands. I don't want to move up right now as I still think I have much to learn about poker. 4-Tabling right now I am making about $25-30 an hour average.

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG you've wasted so many hands....

[Vish]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure if you're considering being a pro, but I thought I'd point this out just in case; people that make decisions like this do not have the emotional stability to be professional poker players.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is nonsense. Making hasty decisions is only a problem for people who aren't complacent, people who are easily disturbed when things don't go completely according to plan. I'd argue that a complacent person who can make hasty decisions and live with the outcome is an ideal professional poker player.

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]


This is nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] yeah. Way too much poker content. What the [censored]?

Oh and quitting your job on the spot when asked to do something you dont agree with shows how not ready you are to even have a job.

[cdxx]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know how to explain it, I have no concept of how the stock market works. 2 times a year we had stock purchases. Let's say on Stock day that IBM was at $100 dollars, we would pay $50(50%) for each share that we wanted. If it went up to $150 then if we were vested in the company we would get $150 if we were not vested we would get $100 the $50 we paid and the $50 it earned. I don't know how else to explain it.

[/ QUOTE ]

you totally misunderstood IBM's plan. (i used to work there and participated in it, though the discount was not 50% but 15%). once you purchase the stock it's yours. the two times a year are used for setting the strike price for your purchases. if you sell any shares that you purchased during the current period (6 months) then you cannot participate in ESPP until the next period. this is just to prevent people selling their shares as soon as they buy them.

you didn't have to sell off your accounts, but on the other hand, you also didn't really pay any penalties on it, just tax. you should be ok as long as you invest that money safely (having all your money in one stock was not safe, so you may actually have done the right thing.)

[jaydub]

Wow, this is a train wreck on multiple levels. Let's go through them one by one.

1. You quit your job with no other prospects on the horizon. This is terrible. You would have been so much better off just saying that you weren't comfortable with what your boss asked you to do. Then he may fire you but you get severance while you figure [censored] out. Alternatively you could man up and just do your job while looking for a new job.

2. It appears your entire retirement portfolio was in a single company's stock. The company you work for no less. This is probably the worst possible strategy. Remember the Enron fiasco?

3. You appear to have no short term cash reserves. Live within your means, means which appear to have benefited from +20K in poker winnings.

4. You cashed out EVERYTHING and did so with no rational plan of what to do with it. Buying and selling creates transaction fees and tax liabilities. Those are bad things. On balance though, FDIC insured cash is a better retirement plan than 100% IBM stock.

5. Your best career option appears to be pro poker. The paid apprenticeship is certainly not going to pay you much money, going to school is a tough option as you need to support yourself. As scary as it is, going pro at 2/4 looks like your best option. Though based upon these previous actions, you are likely to go crazy monkey tilt and dump tens of thousands at a time. But it probably is still better than an apprenticeship. Someone with your temperment having pro poker as the only rational career choice is terrible.

6. You are contemplating moving up in limits, increasing your risk at a time when you are unemployed and under pressure.

Yup, I think suicide is the only option.

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]

That was an incredibly stupid thing to do. Do you have a pressing need for $83,422.03?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have less then 1K in my checking account right now, I have bills to pay, and my retirement account is an all or nothing cash out, so I went with the all. I am going to reinvest most of it, and keep about 10K in a money market account, so I have some on hand liquid funds if I need it.

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Incredibly stupid. You could've gotten a personal loan from a bank with a good rate using the retirement account as collateral.

Now you have zero dollars for retirement. Get smart right away or work until you are 87 years old.

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What are you talking about? How is not quitting your job when your boss tells you to do something "selling out"? This is one of the stupidest posts I've ever read that was attempting to be reasonable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I just think you are totally wrong, you are being paid to destroy peoples lives (even if temporarily), if the boss guy helped you it would be much better, so they have to be laid off? the least he can do is help you. The world is full of people who make decisions like that, then get someone else who gets paid less to do all the hard work. I would tell him to poke it in the hole, I don't need that kind of [censored], money isn't important enough.

Mack

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Evan.
You made an insanely immature statement.
Doing your job is not selling out.
If your job is such that you have subordinates under you, you will have to sometimes do things that you do not personally agree with, but that is in the best interest of your company.

When I was involved in my first termination, we fired a single mother who had no savings, and as a result of losing her job, he lost her apartment and had to move back in with her parents.

Did I feel bad? Of course. But it's my job. I'm not gonna stress it to the point where I would even consider leaving my job over it.

Life sucks sometimes, you just have to grow the [censored] up and deal with it.

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know how to explain it, I have no concept of how the stock market works. 2 times a year we had stock purchases. Let's say on Stock day that IBM was at $100 dollars, we would pay $50(50%) for each share that we wanted. If it went up to $150 then if we were vested in the company we would get $150 if we were not vested we would get $100 the $50 we paid and the $50 it earned. I don't know how else to explain it.

[/ QUOTE ]

you totally misunderstood IBM's plan. (i used to work there and participated in it, though the discount was not 50% but 15%). once you purchase the stock it's yours. the two times a year are used for setting the strike price for your purchases. if you sell any shares that you purchased during the current period (6 months) then you cannot participate in ESPP until the next period. this is just to prevent people selling their shares as soon as they buy them.

you didn't have to sell off your accounts, but on the other hand, you also didn't really pay any penalties on it, just tax. you should be ok as long as you invest that money safely (having all your money in one stock was not safe, so you may actually have done the right thing.)

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a typical ESPP setup right there. Not only do you not pay any "penalties", but the taxes you pay are only on the capital gains since you already paid taxes on the money used to purchase the shares. ESPP funds are not pre-tax.

I don't think this was an ESPP. At least not 100% ESPP. Sounds to me like this was a company matched 401K. My company will match $.50 for every $1 I put into my 401K upto 6% of my salary. Early cashouts from 401Ks do have an early withdrawal penalty ( /images/graemlins/tongue.gif) I have a feeling that this was a mixture of ESPP, 401K, and maybe some stock options? That is the only thing that I can put into the "vesting" category.

[mackthefork]

I don't know who you are or how old you are, but I don't appreciate you telling me my comment is insanely immature. Plenty of things can be justified by saying you were doing your job or following orders or (fill blank), the point is if something makes you feel uncomfortable or bad, you don't have to do it. It is a choice, no more no less, you can say okay I'll do it, and let little Hitlers walk all over you, or you can tell them to [censored] off and do their own dirty work. It was just a point of view and a sensible one at that.

Mack

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

That was an incredibly stupid thing to do. Do you have a pressing need for $83,422.03?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have less then 1K in my checking account right now, I have bills to pay, and my retirement account is an all or nothing cash out, so I went with the all. I am going to reinvest most of it, and keep about 10K in a money market account, so I have some on hand liquid funds if I need it.

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Incredibly stupid. You could've gotten a personal loan from a bank with a good rate using the retirement account as collateral.

Now you have zero dollars for retirement. Get smart right away or work until you are 87 years old.

[/ QUOTE ]


Big Steve --- there is still time. I think you have 60 days to roll this into an IRA at your local bank. It is not an all or nothing thing ---- you can just roll over 70k if need be. you are getting abused on the penalties here dude, that's 8.3k in penalties for withdrawing all of this in addition to having to pay taxes on it right now big big mistake. seriously talk to someone about this it's a lot of $$$$

[Shajen]

If nothing else, open an Emigrant Direct Savings account. (http://emigrantdirect.com/) It's at 4%.

Obviously, there are much better things you could do with this money, but this isn't bad.

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know who you are or how old you are, but I don't appreciate you telling me my comment is insanely immature. Plenty of things can be justified by saying you were doing your job or following orders or (fill blank), the point is if something makes you feel uncomfortable or bad, you don't have to do it. It is a choice, no more no less, you can say okay I'll do it, and let little Hitlers walk all over you, or you can tell them to [censored] off and do their own dirty work. It was just a point of view and a sensible one at that.

Mack

[/ QUOTE ]
OP was asked to do something that is perfectly reasonable and acceptable in the scope of his job. He's immature or rather too immature to hold a job where supervision is a duty.

[Talk2BigSteve]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know who you are or how old you are, but I don't appreciate you telling me my comment is insanely immature. Plenty of things can be justified by saying you were doing your job or following orders or (fill blank), the point is if something makes you feel uncomfortable or bad, you don't have to do it. It is a choice, no more no less, you can say okay I'll do it, and let little Hitlers walk all over you, or you can tell them to [censored] off and do their own dirty work. It was just a point of view and a sensible one at that.

Mack

[/ QUOTE ]
OP was asked to do something that is perfectly reasonable and acceptable in the scope of his job. He's immature or rather too immature to hold a job where supervision is a duty.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have already cleaned out one entire office for my boss, because he did not have the balls to do it, or to tell me what I was about to do, when I had to drive there.

So you would think it was perfectly reasonable for me to call you in to a disiplinary meeting, and ask you to tell me your side of what happened, and listen to you and who ever else you would like to have present on your behalf. Then instead of weighing and taking into account what you had said, I just look down my list and see what your predetermined punishment is?

Sound reasonable right?

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[STLantny]

Was it in your job description, when you agreed to take the job, that you would have to fire people? If so, you are being very immature. It sucks that he made you sit and talk with hte people you had to fire to hear their side, but Im sure it makes it easier on them to vent/tell thier side, but its your job, you should do what you agreed to do at the onset of your employment (if it was included in your job desc).

[mackthefork]

Exactly, working for people like that is not good. Mature is walking out.

Mack

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know who you are or how old you are, but I don't appreciate you telling me my comment is insanely immature. Plenty of things can be justified by saying you were doing your job or following orders or (fill blank), the point is if something makes you feel uncomfortable or bad, you don't have to do it. It is a choice, no more no less, you can say okay I'll do it, and let little Hitlers walk all over you, or you can tell them to [censored] off and do their own dirty work. It was just a point of view and a sensible one at that.

Mack

[/ QUOTE ]
OP was asked to do something that is perfectly reasonable and acceptable in the scope of his job. He's immature or rather too immature to hold a job where supervision is a duty.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have already cleaned out one entire office for my boss, because he did not have the balls to do it

[/ QUOTE ]

Matty's right. Until you realize that doing your job (be it poker or whatever you just quit doing) isn't about "having balls" you're not mature enough to have one. I'd like to reiterate my point that you REALLY shouldn't consider being a professional poker player if you think functions of your job should be correlated to your balls.

EDIT: btw, this is an irrelevant question:
[ QUOTE ]
So you would think it was perfectly reasonable for me to call you in to a disiplinary meeting, and ask you to tell me your side of what happened, and listen to you and who ever else you would like to have present on your behalf. Then instead of weighing and taking into account what you had said, I just look down my list and see what your predetermined punishment is?

[/ QUOTE ]

[Leo99]

This reminds me of a Cheers episode.

[InchoateHand]

Yeah, only stupider.

So someone behaved rashly, big [censored] deal. I'm glad our resident pyschiatroots can infer so much about someone's character.

Sometimes walking out just feels right, and if you are a young guy like the OP, you probably won't suffer any major long-term consequences if you don't compound an admirable but poorly conceived response with additional errors.

I think many of the people taking this opportunity for pissant little lectures are

A) Full of it.
B) Young and self-righteous (much like the OP!)
C) Enjoying hating on a guy because he is Living, Laughing, Learning, /images/graemlins/smirk.gif Talk2BigSteve.

Of these, only the third is remotely respectable or appropriate.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What are you talking about? How is not quitting your job when your boss tells you to do something "selling out"? This is one of the stupidest posts I've ever read that was attempting to be reasonable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I just think you are totally wrong, you are being paid to destroy peoples lives (even if temporarily), if the boss guy helped you it would be much better, so they have to be laid off? the least he can do is help you. The world is full of people who make decisions like that, then get someone else who gets paid less to do all the hard work. I would tell him to poke it in the hole, I don't need that kind of [censored], money isn't important enough.

Mack

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Evan.
You made an insanely immature statement.
Doing your job is not selling out.
If your job is such that you have subordinates under you, you will have to sometimes do things that you do not personally agree with, but that is in the best interest of your company.

When I was involved in my first termination, we fired a single mother who had no savings, and as a result of losing her job, he lost her apartment and had to move back in with her parents.

Did I feel bad? Of course. But it's my job. I'm not gonna stress it to the point where I would even consider leaving my job over it.

Life sucks sometimes, you just have to grow the [censored] up and deal with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Talk about being morally evasive.

I think you've defined selling out pretty well, even though you came up with the decidedly beside the point and lame justification of saying it's in the company's best interests.

Well OF COURSE IT IS, or at least in the best interest of the guy giving the orders at the time.

That's no moral justification. People get hanged after wars for that kind of justification all the time.

Seriously, if it's not selling out because someone told you to do it, then there's no such thing as selling out at all.

Which I think was your point, unintended though it was.

I could actually go with that, if it were directly stated as worthwhile in itself or self-evident. But trying to justify selling out by saying it's not selling out? Doesn't work.

I'd much rather be fired by someone in a straightforward way than with some kind of fake rationalization, even if the reason was just becuase he hated my guts. That can happen in life; I can respect that. It's the bullsh*t surrounding it that's hard to swallow and really stinks up the place.

[Evan]

Yea!!! [censored] YEA!!!!! I'm not signing a god damned contract!!! Let's just do odd jobs in Berkeley 4 LIFE!! [censored] yea dude, we won't sell out...we can be indy FOREVER!!!!111!!!eleven!!!!

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know who you are or how old you are, but I don't appreciate you telling me my comment is insanely immature. Plenty of things can be justified by saying you were doing your job or following orders or (fill blank), the point is if something makes you feel uncomfortable or bad, you don't have to do it. It is a choice, no more no less, you can say okay I'll do it, and let little Hitlers walk all over you, or you can tell them to [censored] off and do their own dirty work. It was just a point of view and a sensible one at that.

Mack

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. It's funny how the people swinging axes around in the corporate world are always trying to make themselves look like a victim.

You've got a car, maybe a nice house, a cute girlfriend who likes to spend your money. I can dig it. A situation comes up where you have to either be a prick or risk losing that. I can dig it, whether I approve or not.

But the "I've got no choice, I'm a victim just like you!" play really sucks, and piles insult on top of injury.

If you want to take an action that is questionable or even indefensible, people have been doing it since time began. There may be a kind of cowardice in it, but a bigger cowardice is lying to yourself about it and then trying to make the other poor dumb sap believe that YOU are the one who is the victim of your own consciously chosen act.

Man up and own up to your own crap. Otherwise you just look even slimier. And if you don't want the consequences of your own crap, do something different instead of trying to hide behind complete lameness and making everyone want to puke.

As you can tell, I've seen a cubic fukton of slimy corporate bullshit in my time.

[Dominic]

Steve, you've always struck me as a great guy, with a level head on your shoulders. You've just quit a job you must not have liked very much, you're $83,000 in the black, and from what I understand, you really have no responsibilities except to your self.

You can do whatever the hell you want to do. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Invest half of what you've got, move up in limits and start 4-tabling 3-6 and taking stabs at bigger games until you're comfortable at the limits. keep meticulous notes (Pokertracker, duh) If you're really doing as well as you say you are, I have no doubt you'll keep winning.

good luck!

[Evan]

Isn't it pretty slimey to disregard the company's stakeholders so that you can save jobs of people that need to (and maybe even should be) fired? You're post exhibits such a poor view of how things actually work that it's comical.

[SackUp]

spend the $83k on learning how to be straight??

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Yea!!! [censored] YEA!!!!! I'm not signing a god damned contract!!! Let's just do odd jobs in Berkeley 4 LIFE!! [censored] yea dude, we won't sell out...we can be indy FOREVER!!!!111!!!eleven!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that was certainly off point.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't it pretty slimey to disregard the company's stakeholders so that you can save jobs of people that need to (and maybe even should be) fired? You're post exhibits such a poor view of how things actually work that it's comical.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shareholders. What a laugh. Company officers are often hated by the shareholders and in return don't give a damn about them and rip them off as much as they possibly can. You think everything anyone does in a company is for the benefit of shareholders? You have got to be pulling my leg.

Your deifying pretending to have no moral culpability for the choices you make, and dragging in shareholders, of all things, to try to bolster that victim mentality, shows such a poor moral understanding and lack of personal responsibility, it's comical.

Except if you were to get power over others and have a nameplate to hide behind. It certainly sounds like you take no responsibility for your own behavior.

"How things work." What a laugh. You mean how you CHOOSE to make them work. *slither* *slither* *slither* Nobody's putting a gun to your head. "I had to because...because ... because -- I WANTED TO!"

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
"I had to because...because ... because -- I WANTED TO MAKE MORE MONEY!"


[/ QUOTE ]
That's what companies do, homie. Not every firm's goal is to save the [censored] mantees.

[Blarg]

I never objected to that goal in and of itself, though I do think that simply following orders doesn't necessary mean you're doing the company any good. Companies issue lots of self-destructive orders.

And making a buck is not a goal that exists in a universe devoid of choices or repercussions. Con men make a buck, and so do thieves; making a buck is not adequate moral justification for every action. One reason we have laws is to curb and punish those who think it is.

You make decisions, and you're responsible for them, and their repercussions. Period. If those aren't the repercussions you want to take responsibility for, make different decisions.

Trying to pin the blame anywhere but yourself is a con job, and an act of bad faith.

Sometimes we do bad things. Personally, I can respect someone who owns up to and is perfectly clear about that a hell of a lot more than someone who screws me and says it's for my own good, or tries to pretend he had nothing to do with it.

I'm sure that many admire being a weasel or think it clever intead of utterly transparent. I'm sure many more think their motives are impenetrable to the raft of humanity so evidently far beneath them, rather than utterly transparent. I merely agree that being a selfish bastard can have a certain utility, nothing more. One shouldn't even try to make excuses for it. It simply is what it is, motivated by and resulting in the obvious self-benefit. Constructing an outlook that purports that one bears no responsibility for one's own behavior or is the helpless victim of it strains credulity.

One should sound and accept exactly what one is -- culpable always. Denials are actually less flattering than admissions, and leave everybody queasy.

[GuyOnTilt]

Why are you trying to make the act of firing someone an ethical dilemma?

GoT

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you trying to make the act of firing someone an ethical dilemma?

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously. If you hire someone should they blow you and invite you to dinner at their house?

[Blarg]

I'm not. I'm picking up on it already being treated that way earlier in the thread, and others saying unequivocally that there could be no ethical dimension in Steve's quitting his job, after Steve implied there was one.

Obviously quitting one's job can have a moral dimension, and since Steve seemed to indicate that he felt it did in his case, it seems perverse and wrongheaded to claim otherwise. It seemed like Steve was being dogpiled on for claiming to find a moral consideration on the job, as if one became morally impervious by clocking in to work in the morning.

I figure if you do something, you're responsible for it, unless you have a gun to your head. Some of us will do anything, and some of us won't. If Steve or anyone finds aspects of a job morally repugnant, I can understand that and think he should probably find a job where the actions he takes feel more justifiable. There are plenty of jobs in the world like that, and they aren't all at the bottom of the pile.

[GuyOnTilt]

Dude. Of course quitting a job CAN have a moral dimension. People are just saying that in this specific case it shouldn't, or at least not one large enough to counter the obvious cons of him quitting. His boss told him to do fire some people. He doesn't want to. If he empathizes to an extent where he doesn't want to fire them, then this job probably isn't the best choice for him anyway. But firing someone isn't something new, and it's certainly not something unethical. Higher ups obviously thought it was in the company's best interest. Whether the OP thinks so or not is irrelevant. That's not his call to make. If he doesn't want to fire them and wants to quit insteadd, that's prefectly fine. I couldn't care less. But when people say that quitting your job with less than $1k in the bank is a stupid thing to do, they aren't wrong. When they say that if firing people is part of his job description and something he therefore agreed to when he took the job then he shouldn't be reacting this way, they aren't wrong.

I'm all for standing up for one's morals, but the OP clearly screwed up one way or another. Either he took a job he clearly shouldn't have 'cause he can't stomach firing people, something which his job would entail, or he is being a dumbass for quitting over this. Either way he [censored] things up for himself. It's not his bosses' fault, it's not corporate America's fault; it's his own damn fault. Either he's making a stupid mistake right now, or he made a stupid mistake earlier and is now paying for it. You can sympathize with him if you want and that's fine, but don't delude yourself into thinking everybody else should as well, or that the OP is a victim.

GoT

[Voltron87]

my thoughts

1. As silly as it is for big steve to refuse to fire people because its not nice, its pretty low that they are holding disciplinary hearings but firing people regardless of what happens in those hearings is dumb, then they shouldnt hold the meetings and waste everyones time.

2. big steve, wtf are you doing
a quitting your job with no other prospects, since youre not cut out ot be a poker pro (200K hands at 2/4? wtf?)
b cashing out youre entire savings and wasting thousands on taxes?

3. The best part about all this is, those people are getting fired even if you quit your job in protest.

[Blarg]

You mistake things. I never came close to saying Steve was a victim. Exactly opposite; I've repeated again and again that nobody escapes their responsibility by playing the victim game.

As you noted, if firing people in this job isn't comfortable for him, then being in this job isn't all that great for him in the first place. And as you noted, his being in that job in the first place may be a mistake; who knows though; most of us don't know all that much about the job we take until we've already been in it for a while, even if we're highly trained specialists. We can't really judge him too much on that without knowing more than we know.

However, now that he got there, his decisions didn't pass around him, but through him -- no victim or passive bystander, he. And to keep himself from becoming a victim, he quit.

The perilousness of quitting any job is self-evident and doesn't need to be argued. Especially since getting fired could at least get you benefits! Certainly this wasn't handled in the best way from a monetary standpoint.

But monetary standpoints are not the beginning and end of how all things should be considered or the adequate justification for all actions. Usually we want to have our cake and eat it too -- do whatever the hell makes us the most money, and find some sort of morality that fits the situation at the time to justify it to ourselves and any others who might have caught wind of what we're up to. Asking people to separate pure self-interest from wider considerations is next to impossible. Yet life is wider than any one job, even though it may not seem like it.

Sometimes people make what they feel to be moral decisions and live by them, and that can be inconvenient yet still be commendable in its own way. I respect people willing to have some outlook once in a while that isn't purely about racking themselves up as much money as possible while saying screw you and get out of my way.

Steve put himself in a situation that can be temporarily pretty rough. But there are probably reasons for it that go beyond what we've been told in this thread, and he may wind up much happier for it in the long term. Lots of people stay in miserable jobs and wind up doing more and more things they hate until they become the things they hate and hate anyone else who hasn't arrived at their level of capitulation and self-loathing yet. People go through their whole lives doing things they hate.

Sometimes it's better in the long run to take some risks and financial hits and try to do something that doesn't piss you off or give you an ulcer or high blood pressure. Sometimes you take risks in life, and sometimes they don't pay off. But sometimes they do. Anyway, there's something to be said for at least trying to see if you can be happy, instead of just accepting an unhappy work life because it keeps the money coming in more smoothly.

Maybe now Steve can go looking for that apprenticeship, and get into what he really wants to do. Maybe he was just waiting for an excuse to take this step and finally took it, and it will lead him to somewhere he really wants to be.

He took a big financial hit doing this, but it's too early to see if it was all to the bad. I think we're talking too much about what would be good in our lives and projecting that onto Steve, and then making judgments on his future when we don't really even know a damn thing about his present but the few scraps and anecdotes he lets slip.

How much is it worth to wake up feeling okay? How much could someone pay you to do things that make you hate yourself or hate your life? We only know the answers for us, but we don't know them for Steve. We know our risk tolerance and what we have to lose, but we don't know for Steve, or what his potential really is.

People have been without jobs before. Steve handled it clumsily, but he'll survive. Maybe he'll be much happier, who knows. One thing I can bet is none of us in this thread have even an ounce of knowledge about it either way.

Nor do we know the importance to Steve of making what he considered a moral decision at that moment, nor what it means to him now or will mean to him later in the fuller context of his whole life. He's the person who has to live with the person he creates, after all, not us. I think we're extremely presumptuous and really kidding ourselves if we think we're doing anything but playing games when we think we know the answer to what's best for Steve. We can't make pronouncements like that. We don't have the knowledge, haven't earned the right, and shouldn't use his predicament to cheaply congratulate ourselves on knowing what he should do when we're just some opinionated clowns on a bulletin board who don't really know jack about him.

I didn't come here to be better than him. I just wish the dude well.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
When I was involved in my first termination, we fired a single mother who had no savings, and as a result of losing her job, he lost her apartment and had to move back in with her parents.

Did I feel bad? Of course. But it's my job. I'm not gonna stress it to the point where I would even consider leaving my job over it.

Life sucks sometimes, you just have to grow the [censored] up and deal with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Greed is good.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/kvinna/0308/23/NYHETER-23s00-michael-98.jpg

[Blarg]

nh

[InchoateHand]

Thank you for stating, with an eloquence I could never achieve, something I would have wanted to say if I wasn't intent on being a solipsistic prick.

[jokerthief]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's hard to advise you. The best advice I can give is to go out to the bar and pick up some skank chick . That ought to straighten you out and give you some confidence to procede.

Good luck!

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you bad advice guy's alter ego?

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Trust me. Bang a hot chick and you will ace all your future job interviews. You need some nice hot vagina Steve.

[Talk2BigSteve]

I am happy with the decisions that I made. I have had tons of ups and downs in my life, but at the end of the day I can still say I have my integrity. It may not mean much to some people here. But living in this [censored] hole called Mississippi, it means a lot to me. I will be fine. I have busted my ass at jobs since I was in High School and I am now debt free. It is one thing to go to work and be there because you have bills to pay. It is a different world when you don't owe a damn thing to anyone.

I know cashing out my life savings was a bit drastic, but oh well it is done, I am only going to keep 10K of it and reinvest the rest. I figured my budget and I can make it each month on about $1,300(Cheap living is the only good thing about Mississippi). If I continue to cashout $2K a month from playing "Go Fish" I should be just fine.

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[jaydub]

[ QUOTE ]
I am happy with the decisions that I made. I have had tons of ups and downs in my life, but at the end of the day I can still say I have my integrity. It may not mean much to some people here. But living in this [censored] hole called Mississippi, it means a lot to me. I will be fine. I have busted my ass at jobs since I was in High School and I am now debt free. It is one thing to go to work and be there because you have bills to pay. It is a different world when you don't owe a damn thing to anyone.

I know cashing out my life savings was a bit drastic, but oh well it is done, I am only going to keep 10K of it and reinvest the rest. I figured my budget and I can make it each month on about $1,300(Cheap living is the only good thing about Mississippi). If I continue to cashout $2K a month from playing "Go Fish" I should be just fine.

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I recommend that you speak to one or more professionals about how to invest the money. You have shown absolutely zero aptitude for handling your own finances and there are many qualified professionals who will gladly assist you.

1) You're in college and have $100k in a retirement account? Most people who have worked 20 years don't have that. Oh wait, we're on the internet. I forgot.

2) Apprenticeship? Are you training to become a wizard?

[usmfan]

[ QUOTE ]
2) Apprenticeship? Are you training to become a wizard?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. He just has the hat. "I put on my wizard hat."

Steve: Here's the plan.

1. PM me where you work b/c I'm curious.
2. Join me today at the Silver Star as I go to crush to 10/20 game (assuming we can get one going). Play the $35 2pm tourney also. I'll be the well dressed one.
3. PM me and let me know how you did in the Hurricane.

[Talk2BigSteve]

[ QUOTE ]
1) You're in college and have $100k in a retirement account? Most people who have worked 20 years don't have that. Oh wait, we're on the internet. I forgot.

2) Apprenticeship? Are you training to become a wizard?

[/ QUOTE ]

#1 I am in college, I am also 31 years old and in college. I have also (until the past couple of years) always saved around 1/3 of every paycheck. You must have assumed that I was some high school grad going to my first year of college to take my general core classes at local junior college and getting so overwhelmed with joy that I get to light up a cigarette in front of my professor and them not give a [censored] and send me to detention.

#2 Not a Wizard, I think Dynasty was first in line for that Apprenticeship.

I am in college working toward a National Certification in Funeral Service Technology, in many fields you have to do on the job training, that training is called an apprenticeship, in my case it is 12 months of it.

Big Steve /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[w_alloy]

>>CAUTION POKER CONTENT<<

[ QUOTE ]
I only play $2/$4 right now although I actually am doing good, I have a 3.29BB/100 average over 178,000 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Other people have said it but MOVE THE [censored] UP

You ARE ready with that winrate, I guarentee. It will be more profitable to "learn" at 3/6. If you really want to focus on learning (which you gave as the reason in a later post) play 1-2 tables and read the appropriate boards, untill you are ready. You can make a decent living playing 5/10.

Especially with your BR, you might consider doing an "internet challenges" or whatever they are called for maybe a month or so. Move up when you have 300BBs, move down when you have 250BBs. Maybe start with 270BBs at 2/4. Play 2-3 tables the whole time, really think about the game and post/read a lot. Pick up some good poker books you havent read yet. At the end of the month, see where it takes you; see where you are comfortable playing. I guarentee you will learn a lot, and if you can live off of 1200 a month you can definantly afford it (opportunity cost being the biggest expense). Mid limits are not as scary as they seem, there are fish at all levels.

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
Matty's right. Until you realize that doing your job (be it poker or whatever you just quit doing) isn't about "having balls" you're not mature enough to have one. I'd like to reiterate my point that you REALLY shouldn't consider being a professional poker player if you think functions of your job should be correlated to your balls.


[/ QUOTE ]

I wish I could be more like you, and completely divorce my actions from their consequences, sadly for me I realise that what I do has an effect on other people and that I am responsible for this. If this makes me a bad person then I am sorry, but i'll stick with what I have.

My guess is that the OP quitting had nothing whatsoever to do with balls and everything to do with being a decent normal human being. German soldiers who put dead jews onto conveyor belts were also 'just doing their jobs', stick with it if it makes you feel like a good capitalist soldier.

Regards Mack