is the sky the limit on my flush draw? [Archive]

View Full Version : is the sky the limit on my flush draw?

09-21-2005, 09:27 PM

Question is short and sweet: do I reraise the flop raiser here with my nut flush draw? In this situation, is there anything that should scare me from throwing tons of money in the pot? Plus, when flop bettor leads out again on the turn, should I juice it again, or has my flush equity gone down too much to make a raise profitable? Thanks for the info.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB raises, UTG calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Flop: (11 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls, Button folds, BB 3-bets, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

River: (13.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB bets, Hero folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

closer2313

09-21-2005, 09:37 PM

You have really bad position relative to the PFR to try to pump a draw. In this hand, your raise has very slim value, and it gets worse if BB will 3 bet. If you just call, you allow 2 people to call behind. This is 35% of 2 bets earned if you just call. If you raise and BB 3 bets, you are now shutting out UTG and you no longer have your equity advantage.

Say,

4 limpers, You call in SB with A9s. BB raises. Flop comes

K 8 4 with 2 of your suit. You check. BB bets, limpers call, now you raise.

Your equity in the pot is 35%. Which means everyone else has an avg of 13%. Since your equity is so huge, you are putting in 1/6 of the bets but getting 35% of all bets that go in.

Now say, 4 limpers, SB raises, you call with A9s

K 8 4 of your suit.

SB bets, you raise, the limpers are faced with 2 cold, so they all fold. Now you have 35% equity but the SB has 65%. You no longer have an equity advantage so raising isn't for value anymore.

When you have poor relation to the PFR, as in, you can't trap people in between the better and your raise, you should just call to keep people in.

There are situations though where you will raise to clean up your Ace outs. An example of this would be like.

UTG limps, SB raises, You call with A5s in the BB.

Flop is J 8 4 with 2 of your suit. SB bets, Now it is more so correct to raise. You are only shutting out one opponent. You are cleaning up your ace outs if UTG had something like AJ-A8. Plus you can take a free card on the turn.

numeri

09-21-2005, 09:51 PM

I know you're just starting, and it's great to have everyone answer your questions directly, but you'll find it more informative and better in the long run if you do some searching and find some of these answers yourself.

My quick search yielded quite a few threads on draws. I typed in:

+flush +draw -re

That means I want both "flush" and "draw", and I don't want replies - that gives me just the initial post. I searched for threads within the last year - plenty of hits!

This one's free. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Your flush card will come in about 35% of the time by the river. That means that on the flop, all you need is two other callers to be able to bet/raise for value. In this situation, you're putting in 33% of the money, but winning 35% of the time. (It's a bit thin, so I usually am only this aggressive if there are 3+ others with me. You may be up against a set, giving you less equity than you think.)

On the turn, you'll only win 20% of the time, so you now need 4+ others with you to bet/raise for value. In your case, you may have an extra out or two because you paired, but still not enough when you're HU.