A situation I think I misplay a lot

[Justin A]

Hijack is a 14/6.7/1.5 guy.

I'm dealt black tens on the button and I raise after UTG, hijack, and CO limp. Blinds fold and limpers call.

Flop J /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/club.gif. (9 SB)
Checked to hijack who bets, CO folds, hero...

[Carmine]

I always raise here to make sure UTG doesn't tag along and then I take the free card on the turn (hopefully). I then call villians river bet.

My reasons:
FLOP: I want to win ASAP and thin field as much as possible with vulnerable hand.

TURN: I dont want to be C/R weather I'm behind or ahead of a smaller PP. (I will bet the turn if the board were draw heavy and a blank falls)

RIVER: Villian is going to bet out 99/QJ/pure bluff so I have to call

But I'm listening...

[mantasm]

You can just fold. He has JT or QJ or J9 most of the time. He wants you to raise to protect his hand for him. And you're not going to make him fold.

[nfscreech]

Pot is big enough that you should continue, so you should raise.

I would fold. We are against a what seems like a tight-semipassive opponent. More importantly there are no draws on the board so it is very unlikely that he is on a semibluff. The pot is big but we have no way to improve and I think we're behind like 90% of the time here. Though if you're going to continue I like Carmine's line a lot, though I think we have to fold to a turn donkbet.

Easy raise IMO.

[mantasm]

People who want to raise, what range of hands would you give to the rock? Also, what do you think the rock wants you to do?

[Jake (The Snake)]

I've been trying to call/raise more often in these types of situations (I can recall a few CDC posts where he thought folds somewhat similar to this were crazy and I was baffled). However, I think reads are extremely important in these scenarios.

This guy is a rock betting into an ultra-dry board. I think this is still a fold.

If the flop was more coordinated or villain was more aggressive the decision would probably be different though. What could his hand range be?

[SeaEagle]

IMO, most of the time it's correct to raise with only 1 overcard on board, especially if you can face multiple opponents with 2 bets and/or the board is somewhat coordinated.

However in this case the board is so dry it's hard to imagine villian betting into 3 people without a J, since when you only play 14% of your hands, 1.5 is pretty passive.

BTW, I think this board is so dry that it's an excellent board to bluff at. With 9 bets in the pot, I'd probably bet at this pot with any 2 cards from UTG. I'd definitely bet at this pot if 1 or 2 people had already checked. (But then again, if I played 14% of my hands, my PFA would be more than twice that of villian's.)

[nfscreech]

[ QUOTE ]
This guy is a rock betting into an ultra-dry board. I think this is still a fold.

What could his hand range be?

[/ QUOTE ]

I should have payed attention to those stats. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Jake's right. Fold.

[TheHammer24]

Just because Villian is 14/7/1.5 does not mean he necessarily has to have a J. A player will often bet here with 66-99 also.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This guy is a rock betting into an ultra-dry board. I think this is still a fold.

What could his hand range be?

[/ QUOTE ]

I should have payed attention to those stats. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Jake's right. Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guilty of the same thing. I don't think a raise is horrible here, but a fold is better against this player.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
Just because Villian is 14/7/1.5 does not mean he necessarily has to have a J. A player will often bet here with 66-99 also.

[/ QUOTE ]

This guy is raising with 99 and probably 88 after one limper from the hijack. Sure, a middling PP that he didn't pfr is possible but I don't think it happens often enough to justify a showdown. I agree with mantasm.

[Yerma]

On a dry board, if he doesn't have you beat, he'll have the A + mid-pair suited, so he has a good chance of beating you anyways. This is a fold. It's also not a very clear raise preflop.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
On a dry board, if he doesn't have you beat, he'll have the A + mid-pair suited, so he has a good chance of beating you anyways. This is a fold. It's also not a very clear raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif you're gonna have to explain this entire posting to me because none of it makes sense to me.

[Yerma]

[ QUOTE ]
On a dry board, if he doesn't have you beat, he'll have the A + mid-pair suited, so he has a good chance of beating you anyways. This is a fold. It's also not a very clear raise preflop.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the board is dry which means there are no reasonable flush or straight draws available. So when the hijack bets, he either has a made hand like KJ or 44 or he is bluffing. If he is bluffing, it's with a hand like KQ, A4s or A2s. Against the hijack's range of likely hands, TT does not appear to do well. This is especially true because if TT has to suck out, it only has 2 cards in the deck to help. So, TT should fold.

Also, this is about the worst number of players to raise against preflop with TT or JJ for a number of reasons. There is probably almost no difference in EV between raising and calling preflop.

[paperboyNC]

fold. you are often facing a jack, and when you are you have very few outs.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
So when the hijack bets, he either has a made hand like KJ or 44 or he is bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about hands like A4s, A2s, and all pocket pairs < TT?

So how do you normally play this?

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
So how do you normally play this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise, bet the turn, and check the river.

Unless I'm cold called by someone else on the flop, then I give up.

Edit/ I think this is the best line most of the time. It takes a special situation where you know you are beat to give up immediately because the size of the pot dictates that you usually continue.

[Yerma]

A couple of posts above it reads:

[ QUOTE ]
... If he is bluffing, it's with a hand like KQ, A4s or A2s ...

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So how do you normally play this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise, bet the turn, and check the river.

Unless I'm cold called by someone else on the flop, then I give up.

Edit/ I think this is the best line most of the time. It takes a special situation where you know you are beat to give up immediately because the size of the pot dictates that you usually continue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I have been thinking about this one a lot actually. And I think you are right. What do you do if Mr. Rock leads or c/r the turn?

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So how do you normally play this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise, bet the turn, and check the river.

Unless I'm cold called by someone else on the flop, then I give up.

Edit/ I think this is the best line most of the time. It takes a special situation where you know you are beat to give up immediately because the size of the pot dictates that you usually continue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I have been thinking about this one a lot actually. And I think you are right. What do you do if Mr. Rock leads or c/r the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

fold.

[mtdoak]

Raise, knock out UTG, and take the free card/cheap showdown. Seriously re-eval if I'm 3 bet.