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View Full Version : Carbon dating doesn't work; Evolution is an EVIL lie


eOXevious
09-21-2005, 12:15 PM
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Radiocarbon dating, especially using the Carbon 14 method, takes advantage of the radioactive decay of the isotope, which is seen as a constant. Every living thing takes in and expels Carbon 14 while it is alive, and a static level of the element is maintained. When the organism dies, the infusion is suspended, and the level is reduced according to the rate of decay, known as the “half-life.” The amount of Carbon 14 in the artifact is measured and then compared to the presumed static level the organism maintained while alive; the comparison then yields the relative age of the specimen. Though this sounds very straightforward and scientific, there are several serious problems.

The first problem is seen in the very approach in the presumption that must be made in the level of Carbon 14 the organism had while living. Here we have a critical calculation that is based upon an assumption that an organism which lived thousands of years previous, of which there are no modern species to compare, developed a specific level of Carbon 14 from an environment we know nothing about. If for example, the presumption is inaccurate by only 10%, considering that it is the rate of decay that forms the mathematical constant, the inaccuracy of the calculation of age at the upper limit would be tens of thousands of years.

The very basis for the assumption above is another problem, and is perhaps the most embarrassing for the proponents of radiocarbon dating. To assume a particular level of Carbon 14 in an organism requires a precise determination of environmental (atmospheric) levels of the same. That is, to presume a particular level in a living thing requires a precise knowledge of the ambient amount of Carbon 14 in the air and environment. Scientists performing radiocarbon dating assume that the amount in the environment has not changed. This is compelling for several reasons, not the least of which is the convenience with which “science” apparently operates; we hear of massive changes in the earth, ice ages, catastrophic events that killed the dinosaurs, etc., but the environment never changed according to the same scientists.

Not only does the requisite level of assumption and presumption all but invalidate the accuracy of the claims of very old dating, but were there for example, an environmental phenomenon that affected the level of ambient Carbon 14, the results could be skewed exponentially. In fact, several such phenomena did indeed exist, proven by the same science that supports old-age radiocarbon dating! It would seem quite clear that some predisposition or predilection for particular findings in terms of dating artifacts is at work in this case. For example, consider that it is essentially accepted that an antediluvian water canopy existed surrounding the earth; this would have acted to either negate or at least significantly reduce the effect of cosmic, x-ray, and ultraviolet radiation in the upper atmosphere. Carbon 14 production would have been negligible, and therefore would not have been absorbed by living things; any organism living before the reduction of the canopy would in turn be dated exponentially older than it actually is. Or consider the effect a global atmospheric shield of dust created as a result of a meteor impact some scientists believe killed off the dinosaurs—levels of Carbon 14 in the atmosphere must certainly have been different, thereby invalidating the age/date test data. Isn’t it funny how the same scientists who purport constant catastrophic changes in earth’s history depend upon the inherent necessity that it was completely without any changes?

Moreover, it is established fact that the earth’s magnetic field has been in a constant decline in strength2, which would have vigorously protected the earth from the same radiation, all but negating the production of Carbon 14 and thereby minimizing the ambient amount available for absorption by living things. Yet these two facts are virtually unknown in modern society, and it seems never associated with radiometric dating, apparently since it would put such method (and indeed its findings) in doubt as to its reliability.

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As listed on www.drdino.com (http://www.drdino.com) by Dr. Kent Hovind.

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Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water

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2 Peter 3:3 - 2 Peter 3:5

Athiests, don't be willingly ignorant of the righteous truth.

slickpoppa
09-21-2005, 12:27 PM
I am assuming that this guy also believes that the universe is only several thousand years old. How would he explain the fact that we see light from stars that are millions of light years away from us? The fact that those stars are millions of light years away from us can be proven with simple geometry.

BluffTHIS!
09-21-2005, 12:33 PM
You are just another intellectually barren evangelical who denies evolution because of your selectively literal interpretations of scripture and your molding God into YOUR image. If you read these forums regularly you will note that this is a fellow Christian saying this. You need to get a grounding in science so that you can recognize that scientific theories of evolution do not revolve around Carbon-14 dating. Go look into potassium-argon-40 dating which is used for time periods much further back. There can be no conflict between true doctrine and true science and if you see such a conflict, then most likely it is because your particular brand of christianity possesses many faults in doctrine.

If you refuse to acknowledge the possibility that God brought humans about through evolution of the species because you don't like the idea that we and monkeys descend from a common ape-like primate, then you just lack the christian virtue of humility. In fact by assuming that God could only create our species directly, you are molding Him to an idol of your own understanding rather than seeing Him for the unlimited God that He is who could have brought about humans in many different ways, and God's creation which includes science shows clearly it was through evolution of the species.

And if it is because you take such a literalist interpretation of the Book of Genesis to mean that the earth really isn't all that old, then you are a hypocrite since I guarantee that I can show other passages of NT scripture that you refuse to take literally once I know your specific denomination and its doctrine.

Of course I am assuming in my response that you are serious in your post and not just trolling.

Aytumious
09-21-2005, 03:00 PM
You've convinced me. Where do I sign up and how much are the dues?

Jeff V
09-21-2005, 03:56 PM
LOL /images/graemlins/smile.gif

KeysrSoze
09-21-2005, 04:00 PM
Yes, his ideas intrigue me, and I'd like to sign up for his newsletter.

09-21-2005, 06:00 PM
Carbon dating doesn't work --> Evolution is an evil lie

My calculator doesn't work --> Math is an evil lie

Jacob_Gilliam
09-21-2005, 06:20 PM
Hey, they finally killed the famous "test" thread over in the poker theory forum. We could make this thread the new "test" thread for this forum.

Just a thought.

I miss the test thread...... /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Jim T
09-21-2005, 08:00 PM
But they'll never disprove the pattern mapper!

tonypaladino
09-22-2005, 04:48 AM
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Yes, his ideas intrigue me, and I'd like to sign up for his newsletter.

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This never gets old.

Oh wait, yes it does. It got old after the first 900 times it was said on the internet in the 3 weeks after that Simpsons episode aired.

09-22-2005, 05:25 AM
Evolution is a scientific theory. If you think that it is wrong or if it is ever proven wrong then it will be a disproven theory. To call it an evil lie is silly and makes you sound like a non-scientific religious kook. Then your little scoff at atheists. You're just stirring up trouble. How about this:
Faith is nothing more than willful suspension of disbelief /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

KeysrSoze
09-22-2005, 05:48 AM
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This never gets old.

Oh wait, yes it does. It got old after the first 900 times it was said on the internet in the 3 weeks after that Simpsons episode aired.

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You're just stupid. Don't you know that if something is funny on the internet the first time, its absolutely hilarious the 10,000th time? Get a Brain, Moran.

Pwned, all your base are belong to me.

benkahuna
09-22-2005, 05:58 AM
This post reeks of trolldom, but I think it can be redeemed.

Firstly, carbon-14 dating is only useful for about 50,000 years. For longer timescales over 100k, paleontologists use potassium-argon dating.

I suppose some of the same concerns still apply.

The argument suffers from the extreme weakness that it doesn't consider the strongest counter-argument.

It seems like one of those smarty "I've got you posts" when the problem is something any reasonably conscientious scientist would have considered before using radiocarbon dating and the scientific community as a whole would absolutely have not only considered, but addressed.

The concerns are real ones, but I'll bet they've been addressed.

sexdrugsmoney
09-22-2005, 06:01 AM
*SDM watches the "evolution" of BluffTHIS!'s post* (within one paragraph also)

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If you refuse to acknowledge the possibility that God brought humans about through evolution of the species because you don't like the idea ...

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Possibility = possible - open mind - not sure of answer.

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that we and monkeys descend from a common ape-like primate, then you just lack the christian virtue of humility. In fact by assuming that God could only create our species directly, you are molding Him to an idol of your own understanding rather than seeing Him for the unlimited God that He is who could have brought about humans in many different ways, and God's creation which includes science shows clearly it was through evolution of the species.

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"clearly it was" = certain - definite - sure of answer.

I'm curious as to what the position of Holy Mother Church on evolution is? (Do you have foreknowledge of the things accepted by Vatican III, or are you just being heretical?)

KeysrSoze
09-22-2005, 06:11 AM
I think Vatican II or III or whatever in the '50s tiptoed around the issue, saying that evolution and Catholicism are not diametrically opposed, but didn't go as far as to endorse it or acknowledge it as fact. John Paul was a little more open to it.

Ah here it is, google describes him saying that it is "an effectively proven fact"

sexdrugsmoney
09-22-2005, 06:28 AM
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I think Vatican II or III or whatever in the '50s tiptoed around the issue, saying that evolution and Catholicism are not diametrically opposed, but didn't go as far as to endorse it or acknowledge it as fact. John Paul was a little more open to it.

Ah here it is, google describes him saying that it is "an effectively proven fact"

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Really? My google results don't reflect that John Paul II said that, strange.

About.com (http://atheism.about.com/od/popejohnpaulii/a/evolution.htm) though, in it's atheism and agnosticism section, say regarding John Paul's word's on evolution in his speech to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences:

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None of this necessarily means that Pope John Paul II accepted evolution as a fact and it certainly doesn’t mean that Catholics are required to accept evolution as a fact. John Paul’s address was designed to explain the Vatican’s theological position on human origins, not the Vatican’s position on science. The address wasn’t meant to be either an endorsement or (obviously) a condemnation.

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John Paul's speech to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences that mentions evolution can be found here (http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm)

About.com does say though that evolution is taught in many catholic schools though, perhaps BluffTHIS! is taking his secondary catholic schooling as though Father O'Leary in Biology 101 has the same infallibility as Pope Benedict XVI et al?

Who knows?

usmhot
09-22-2005, 06:53 AM
So, SDM, do you want to make your own position clear?
Do you reject the weight and variety of scientific evidence for evolution and the age of our planet, solar system and Universe in favour of the creationist belief?
Are you prepared to nail your colours?

BluffTHIS!
09-22-2005, 08:13 AM
No SDM does NOT want to make his position clear and has said so before. He just likes to debate and will take any side of any issue and will surf the net to find exerpts to support whichever side he currently is arguing. If think that he holds any views deeply then you have been had.

sexdrugsmoney
09-22-2005, 03:39 PM
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No SDM does NOT want to make his position clear and has said so before. He just likes to debate and will take any side of any issue and will surf the net to find exerpts to support whichever side he currently is arguing. If think that he holds any views deeply then you have been had.

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I can't believe you still hold fast that opinion about me.

09-24-2005, 04:52 PM
We've discovered other methods of dating objects that confirm carbon-dating's validity.
btw, nice troll