Cards at Party versus Brick & Mortar

Not to sound conspiratorial, but having been to brick and mortars in AC, it is interesting how many straights/flushes/4 of a kinds/full houses/rivers occur on Party compared with brick and mortars. These are more rare at a B&M.

Does Party have its card generator independently reviewed (by a commission, accounting firm, whatever) to ensure there is no foul play? I feel somewhat secure going to a brick and mortar because the NJ Casino Commission is watching things, but as far as I know, no one is watching over Party.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
Not to sound conspiratorial, but having been to brick and mortars in AC, it is interesting how many straights/flushes/4 of a kinds/full houses/rivers occur on Party compared with brick and mortars. These are more rare at a B&M.

[/ QUOTE ]


are you serious?



hint: you play a lot more hands online since you can play more than one table, and party poker doesnt sit there in gibraltar shuffling a deck, gathering the cards, and telling you what they are, then taking them back and shuffling again.

[Bremen]

Not to be rude, but more hands per hour = more boats per hour. Also playing extra tables will exacerbate the effect.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
Not to sound conspiratorial, but having been to brick and mortars in AC, it is interesting how many straights/flushes/4 of a kinds/full houses/rivers occur on Party compared with brick and mortars. These are more rare at a B&M.

Does Party have its card generator independently reviewed (by a commission, accounting firm, whatever) to ensure there is no foul play? I feel somewhat secure going to a brick and mortar because the NJ Casino Commission is watching things, but as far as I know, no one is watching over Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

393 posts before making an online poker is rigged thread? Thats a little different.

Seriously though, don't worry, Party isn't rigged, most likely, you just suck at poker.

[Guthrie]

You're right. It's a conspiracy. Party, and all the poker sites, juice the deck to keep the fish happy and the action going.

Actually, the truth is somewhat less exotic. In a B&M cardroom I play maybe 30 or 40 hands an hour. Online I play 50 or 60--per table--even more shorthanded or high-speed, so I'm seeing five or ten times as many hands, and thus, five or ten times as many big hands, and of course, five or ten times as many suckouts.

[ QUOTE ]
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Not to sound conspiratorial, but having been to brick and mortars in AC, it is interesting how many straights/flushes/4 of a kinds/full houses/rivers occur on Party compared with brick and mortars. These are more rare at a B&M.

[/ QUOTE ]


are you serious?



hint: you play a lot more hands online since you can play more than one table, and party poker doesnt sit there in gibraltar shuffling a deck, gathering the cards, and telling you what they are, then taking them back and shuffling again.

[/ QUOTE ]

serious. I'm at work, so don't have PT, but have email of last 100 hands: 5 full houses, 2 four of a kinds, 3 flushes, 6 straights.

[ QUOTE ]
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Not to sound conspiratorial, but having been to brick and mortars in AC, it is interesting how many straights/flushes/4 of a kinds/full houses/rivers occur on Party compared with brick and mortars. These are more rare at a B&M.

Does Party have its card generator independently reviewed (by a commission, accounting firm, whatever) to ensure there is no foul play? I feel somewhat secure going to a brick and mortar because the NJ Casino Commission is watching things, but as far as I know, no one is watching over Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

393 posts before making an online poker is rigged thread? Thats a little different.

Seriously though, don't worry, Party isn't rigged, most likely, you just suck at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just asking a question. Chill. I never said that I was losing from the cards: I hit 3 four of a kinds last night, so I'm happy.

[ QUOTE ]
You're right. It's a conspiracy. Party, and all the poker sites, juice the deck to keep the fish happy and the action going.

Actually, the truth is somewhat less exotic. In a B&M cardroom I play maybe 30 or 40 hands an hour. Online I play 50 or 60--per table--even more shorthanded or high-speed, so I'm seeing five or ten times as many hands, and thus, five or ten times as many big hands, and of course, five or ten times as many suckouts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said it was a conspiracy. Just making an observation. I don't think it's much of a stretch to be a bit cautious when gaming at a site that is not regulated and where there is no oversight. Anyways, moving on.

[revots33]

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serious. I'm at work, so don't have PT, but have email of last 100 hands: 5 full houses, 2 four of a kinds, 3 flushes, 6 straights.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure someone else has played their past 100 hands with 0 FH, 0 quads, 0 flushes, 0 straights. These type of atypical runs don't mean anything. I'm sure they happen at B&M's too if you sit there long enough.

[Victor]

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Not to sound conspiratorial, but having been to brick and mortars in AC, it is interesting how many straights/flushes/4 of a kinds/full houses/rivers occur on Party compared with brick and mortars. These are more rare at a B&M.

Does Party have its card generator independently reviewed (by a commission, accounting firm, whatever) to ensure there is no foul play? I feel somewhat secure going to a brick and mortar because the NJ Casino Commission is watching things, but as far as I know, no one is watching over Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

393 posts before making an online poker is rigged thread? Thats a little different.

Seriously though, don't worry, Party isn't rigged, most likely, you just suck at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just asking a question. Chill. I never said that I was losing from the cards: I hit 3 four of a kinds last night, so I'm happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

playing live in an 10hr stretch i saw 8 four of a kinds.

[Overdrive]

Oh my God. - Well anyway if you think that than it should be VERY easy to win there. All you have to do is just go to the river with every hand you are dealt and see what happens. OK?

[ QUOTE ]
Oh my God. - Well anyway if you think that than it should be VERY easy to win there. All you have to do is just go to the river with every hand you are dealt and see what happens. OK?

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't come to any conclusion, just making an observation. Relax.

[BigBiceps]

I hate to say it, but I agree, there is something wrong with the deck at Party.

I am new to online poker, but in the last month I have played at Party (& Empire), Paradise, PokerStars, UltimateBet, and Pacific.

I have no problem with the deck at any of the other 4 sites. The weird flops, turns and rivers (and hands drawing out on others) is only occuring at Party / Empire. Before I get criticized for sample size, I have played over 10k hands at Party and over 10k hands at the other sites.

I see way too many royal flushes (I have seen 6), quads, 4 flush boards, and split pots (by the board getting counterfitted on the river). Example AJ vs A2, Flop QJ2, turn K, river T. Although, I have seen many other weird split pots like AA vs AT, flop A55, turn 5, river 5 etc. I have seen other weird stuff, like KK vs 99, board JJTT, KK goes all in on the turn and 99 calls?!, river 9.

[Dariel86]

And your tiny reputation went down the drain...

[Dariel86]

Can't see the sarcasm in that post, are you [censored] serious?

[titans01]

My brother and I took our 1st trip to the B&M casinos last weekend. Played about 10 hours and seen plenty of boats, flushes and such. My brother had TT and got all of his money in on a T54 flop and got called by Q5. The guy hit QQ runner. An hour later he flopped a full house with pocket Jacks and got beat by runner - runner royal flush. I see 2 hands where both guys had flushes with 3 on the board and several hands where guys had the same hole cards such as K3. It really made me feel better than online poker is NOT rigged.

[smb394]

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393 posts before making an online poker is rigged thread? Thats a little different.

Seriously though, don't worry, Party isn't rigged, most likely, you just suck at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

One time, I was playing online, and my AK got beat by 72o. I think it somehow made the rake bigger or something. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[dengar]

I was in AC on a 2/4 table when the same guy won 4 straight hands all with full houses. I have never seen that on party.

[Zetack]

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One time, I was playing online, and my AK got beat by 72o. I think it somehow made the rake bigger or something. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes me want to go out and f*ck Alyson Hannigan.

--Zetack

[RollaJ]

I have noticed the cards on Party are smaller than the ones in AC

[ QUOTE ]


I'm at work, so don't have PT, but have email of last 100 hands: 5 full houses, 2 four of a kinds, 3 flushes, 6 straights.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you have given us a sample of 100 hands...comeback with 100,000 and then we'll give you some credit.

[benfranklin]

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I have noticed the cards on Party are smaller than the ones in AC

[/ QUOTE ]

I've noticed that you get more action hands at Party with the 4-color decks. Whenever I feel like really gamboooling, I change to 4-color and go to the river with any 2.

[Beavis68]

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serious. I'm at work, so don't have PT, but have email of last 100 hands: 5 full houses, 2 four of a kinds, 3 flushes, 6 straights.

[/ QUOTE ]

100 hands? Well, that is enough for me.

[crunchy1]

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I don't think it's much of a stretch to be a bit cautious when gaming at a site that is not regulated and where there is no oversight. Anyways, moving on.

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http://www.seconx.com/assets/party.jpg

I think they're regulated just a little bit. And, oh yeah, there was that IPO thing.........

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I don't think it's much of a stretch to be a bit cautious when gaming at a site that is not regulated and where there is no oversight. Anyways, moving on.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.seconx.com/assets/party.jpg

I think they're regulated just a little bit. And, oh yeah, there was that IPO thing.........

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a low threshold. I am talking NJ/NV Gaming Commission type of regulation. The real deal. But hey, to each their own.

[ QUOTE ]
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I have noticed the cards on Party are smaller than the ones in AC

[/ QUOTE ]

I've noticed that you get more action hands at Party with the 4-color decks. Whenever I feel like really gamboooling, I change to 4-color and go to the river with any 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

One day you'll turn 21 and get to gamble at B&M. You can post then.

[Michael O'Malley]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's much of a stretch to be a bit cautious when gaming at a site that is not regulated and where there is no oversight. Anyways, moving on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lesson #1: There is life outside of the US (actual people and all)
Lesson #2: There are governments, agencies, companies and commissions outside of the US that are legitimate, well run, trusted, regulated and active.
Lesson #3: The Atlantic City Borgata is not regulated (and has no oversight) by the Gibraltar Gaming Commission.

[AAmaz0n]

I like the cards at Party better because they have more pretty colors.

Shauna

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
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I have noticed the cards on Party are smaller than the ones in AC

[/ QUOTE ]

I've noticed that you get more action hands at Party with the 4-color decks. Whenever I feel like really gamboooling, I change to 4-color and go to the river with any 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

One day you'll turn 21

[/ QUOTE ]

Never again in this lifetime. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

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serious. I'm at work, so don't have PT, but have email of last 100 hands: 5 full houses, 2 four of a kinds, 3 flushes, 6 straights.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think that's bad? I played 2 hands last night, and someone got a flush in both hands. That means 100% of winning hands were flushes! What are the odds of that? Oh yeah, it must be rigged.

[MicroBob]

seems like your post is serious.


1. 10k hands is a small sample-size too fwiw.

2. It's unfortunate that you think this way.


To those giving all the 'are you serious?' questions to guys who think the 'cards at party are funny': Yes. They are serious. There are MANY of them out there. It truly is amazing (and I'm actually surprised there aren't MORE of them on here).

[BigBiceps]

I know 10k is a small sample size, but it is not an insignificant one.

What are the odds of 6 royal flushes in 5k hands on a ten handed table... Pretty small, I am too lazy to compute it.

I just don't see these things at UB, Stars, Paradise, or Pacific. I know there are suckouts I saw at B&M the money go in AA v AK with a board of AT3, turn J, river Q. I know these things happen. I think they are just happening with greater frequency than they should at Party. I know one can argue that it is due to the games being looser, and I agree more of these types of things will happen in loose games. I am just stating that more are happening that should even in loose games.

I don't know what other way to think. It is not that I have not won money on party/empire, the cards just don't seem right. I will try to think of a way to "prove" this, by computing that the underdog is winning more than the fair share, but since you don't see every hand to a showdown, and there are multiple people in the pot, computing this is rather difficult.

Also, btw, I remember a thread in the probability forum with you last year. What was your girlfriends middle name? lava-something?..?

[siccjay]

OMG 6 ROYAL FLUSHES!!!!!

I've been playing for 2 years and I've seen 2. I call BS.

[BigBiceps]

You are calling me of stating BS or are you calling PartyPoker BS?

Either way, it doesn't matter, why would I make it up. Once I get pokertracker, I can find the hand numbers (I think this is a feature in pokertracker, that I can sort by what won?).

Also, to those who say why would PartyPoker cheat its players, when they already make so much money? The answer to that is relatively simple: to make more money. It is clear how that they would make more money by keeping the fish playing longer. 1) more players are playing, generating more rake, 2) attracts strong players to play on the site to play against the fish, generating more rake.

I do not get this feeling at Stars UB or Paradise.

I have read entire long webpages about people who think party is unfair. A lot of them are of course kooks, who just don't know probabilities and bad beats and poker. I know most of the people here think I am a kook too for thinking that something is wrong with the deal at party. However, let me give you some background. I have a degree in Math, I have played B&M for 15 years, and online for just a month. I have no motive for saying this about Party poker. I just see something quite different at party than I see at UB, stars and paradise.

[MicroBob]

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I don't know what other way to think.

[/ QUOTE ]


You should remember that crazy things can happen over a semi-extended period of time (such as 10k hands) and that it's pretty ridiculous to think that the cards run differently at party just based on your limited observation.

for every 10k hands of semi-wacky stuff you see at Party there is someone experiencing the exact same thing on UB or Paradise while he is completely convinced that Party's cards are just kind of "not as weird." or something like that.


I made a recent post about bad-beats and crazy-happenings online on my blog actually where I relate much if this stuff to sports.


edit - mostly you should just remember that the human-brain often-times tries to find patterns...even when it shouldn't.
When I was a BJ dealer I think almost EVERY player would do this.
"He's gotten BJ 3 hands in a row...he's hot and you shouldn't play here."
"It's a good shoe for the players...don't mess it up by adding an extra player. every time a new player comes in the shoe turns to crap."

etc etc.

you really have to get beyond your current way of thinking or else you'll pretty much be doomed.
you have to accept that regardless of what site you play on you will have stretches of 1k or 10k hands where you will see supposedly wacky things happen.

These things are happening all the time and you usually don't even know about it.

What about the time that 4 players all sitting next to each other ALL got dealt 72o on the SAME HAND.
You don't remember that one?? That's because they ALL folded before the flop and you never saw their cards.



Regarding my GF's middle-name (this was from SEVERAL months ago):
She didn't want me to know what it was because she hated it and there wasn't really a record of it anywhere since she's not from the U.S.
i had a handful of clues that I was able to dig out of her including:
- 8 letters
- begins with L
- 3 of the letters are vowels
- ends in an A (predictable for a latina name)
- one of the consonants was used twice
- no letter was used consecutively
- no Q, W, X (and a few others).


anyway...I wanted to get some sort of computer program that would incorporate all the clues into it and spit a print-out of EVERY possibility based on these clues...but then I mostly gave up on it (although I had it in the back of my mind to get back to it).


Well...on the PPM cruise in March I brought my lap-top with me and she was able to e-mail her Mom from my address.
The return e-mail from her Mom contained her Mom's FULL name (where you see the sender's name...not their e-mail address...like on outlook-express).

Hooray for me...as her Mom's middle-name is the same as her daughter's so the 'secret' was revealed.


Teresa's middle-name is Ludgarda (which would have appeared SOMEWHERE in that long computer list of 8-letter L-word combinations along with all the non-sensical LBAFBEGA type words).

[titans01]

I know what you are saying. I have played online for a year and a half and in the beginning I thought alot of it was weird but after playing over 750,000 I realize it's more a factor of just seeing so many more hands online that leads to theories of rigged poker sites. Our minds single out strange hands and try to make sense of them. I still have this problem. It seems to me that the Pokerroom network has more times where two guys have the same high pocket pairs and Paradise's tournaments seem like the chip leader has the advantage on races. I know this isn't really true but that's the way my mind makes sense of it. My guess is your just not use to the volume of hands your seeing online and it will even out after a while.

[MicroBob]

Also remember that on looser tables (like Party typically) you are more likely to get to SEE these situations.

You might have had different players hit 6 royals in a single-day or something on some other site too...but if they are never called-down so that they could show their cards you would never have known about it.

Gimme an "F"!

Gimme an "A"!

Gimme a "Q"!

What does it spell???

[J_B]

Ok, I was beat twice twi in under 5minutes by 4 of a kind 7's at party! I have my 4 of a kind aces cracked by a straight flush! Clearly rigged!

So, one of the conspiracy theorists, what exactly are we looking for here? I probably have over 200k Party hands in my db. What's the query to run? I'll run it on my own data if you can put it out here.

Also, fwiw, at B&M I have seen hands like 3 boats in a row, etc.

[BigBiceps]

[ QUOTE ]
I probably have over 200k Party hands in my db. What's the query to run? I'll run it on my own data if you can put it out here.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, how about something simple. In hands with 2 players on the turn with a paired board. Can you check how often a hand with TPTK gets counterfitted on the river by TP weak kicker?

Itemize those hands that the board pairs again, splitting the pot, and those which the other guy hits his kicker, those which give both players a straight, and those which make the weaker hand have a flush.

Although this is a simple example, I don't know how simple it is. Then after you do the numbers, I can compute the theoretical numbers, or you can run it against whatever other databases you have.

This type of information would interest me greatly. Thanks.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
Before I get criticized for sample size, I have played over 10k hands at Party and over 10k hands at the other sites.


[/ QUOTE ]

Bwahahahahahah!

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
but it is not an insignificant one.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is *so* insignificant.

Krishanleong in the HUSH forum just ran a bb/100 test for 100 sets of 100,000 hands.

The average BB/100 was a little higher than predicted. 1.95 versus 1.8 or something.

What that means, is that his computer-generated simulation was running hot for 10 million hands

10,000 hands is less than a drop in a bucket. It's a drop in the ocean.

The cards are fine, focus on your play, noob.

[21times20]

how can you have a degree in math and say things like "greater frequency than they should" ? if the cards are random there is no result that "should" happen, only results that are more likely than other ones, is this simple concept really that difficult for people to understand? the fact that the cards are random virtually guarantees that their will be deviations from what is expected

but maybe since i don't have a "math degree" i don't have a clue what i'm talking about, so let's ignore the concepts of probability in random cards and think about it solely from a business perspective

can someone explain to me why it wouldn't be much more complicated and costly for a company to both develop and cover up a non-random number generator to run their poker site with than the slight increase in rake would be worth?

every poker site, including party, has a max rake per hand, do you think i am really going out on a limb when i say that at a typical poker table it takes much less strong hands than a rigged straight flush on the river beating quads for a site to collect the max rake? i really think any direct increase in rake revenue is so far away from significant compared the massive risk of ruin they would be facing should evidence of their "rigging" be found that the concept is laughable

but of course there are the indirect profits as you pointed out when you said, "make more money by keeping the fish playing longer. 1) more players are playing, generating more rake, 2) attracts strong players to play on the site to play against the fish, generating more rake."

as far as i can figure the only way that they could rig a site to keep fish playing longer would be to actually have their software analyze and reward poor poker play, now even if this isn't too complicated a process to be feasible, i don't see any way for this not to directly result in good play being penalized so that someone able to exercise hypothetical perfect table selection (i.e. a table with just them and 9 "fish") would be a consistent loser since the site is rigged to help the "fish"

however, in my own personal experience and i'm sure in the experience of winning players who have played many more hands than me, the worse the other players at my table are the more i win

the simple fact of the matter is poker IS rigged, not online or just party, or just B&M, but the game itself is structured to be a balance of both luck and skill with enough of a luck factor that a poor player can win often enough to keep them coming back while still having a large enough skill factor for an expert player to win consistently over time, actual random cards are able to maintain this balance without any need for interference

[J_B]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I probably have over 200k Party hands in my db. What's the query to run? I'll run it on my own data if you can put it out here.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, how about something simple. In hands with 2 players on the turn with a paired board. Can you check how often a hand with TPTK gets counterfitted on the river by TP weak kicker?

Itemize those hands that the board pairs again, splitting the pot, and those which the other guy hits his kicker, those which give both players a straight, and those which make the weaker hand have a flush.

Although this is a simple example, I don't know how simple it is. Then after you do the numbers, I can compute the theoretical numbers, or you can run it against whatever other databases you have.

This type of information would interest me greatly. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, just write me the SQL query and it's a done deal. Then of course we can compare to Poker Stove and see if the numbers are relatively the same. 200k is still a fairly small somple for this type of comparison, but may be enough.

[BigBiceps]

Unfortunately I don't know how to write SQL.

Also, there would be more people with comments here like these, if the people here were not so condescending.

I may just have experienced an anomoly of data. However, I see things like:

web page (http://www.beatppnow.com/)

and

http://homepokergames.com/party.php

And, it just raises additional questions to what I have seen.

[BigBiceps]

[ QUOTE ]
how can you have a degree in math <font color="blue"> because I took the required courses and they gave it to me </font> and say things like "greater frequency than they should" <font color="blue"> that means higher than the expected value (and actually by alot) </font> ? if the cards are random there is no result that "should" happen <font color="blue"> yes, a certain result should happen more often than others, but of course any result that is possible will eventually happen </font> , only results that are more likely than other ones, is this simple concept really that difficult for people to understand? the fact that the cards are random virtually guarantees that their will be deviations from what is expected

but maybe since i don't have a "math degree" i don't have a clue what i'm talking about, so let's ignore the concepts of probability in random cards and think about it solely from a business perspective

can someone explain to me why it wouldn't be much more complicated <font color="blue"> it would be more complicated </font> and costly <font color="blue"> it might have some initial cost, but it would pay for itself in short time due to increased business </font> for a company to both develop and cover up a non-random number generator <font color="blue"> there is no need to cover up anything, since it is an offshore company that basically reports to noone. If you are talking about covering up from the public, that is easy, you just say "not enough sample size" to prove anything. </font> to run their poker site with than the slight increase <font color="blue"> it will be alot more than a slight increase </font> in rake would be worth?

every poker site, including party, has a max rake per hand, do you think i am really going out on a limb when i say that at a typical poker table it takes much less strong hands than a rigged straight flush on the river beating quads for a site to collect the max rake <font color="blue"> I am not talking about rigging monsters beating monsters, I am talking about rigging such that a weak player gets to draw out on a stronger player, with a mediocure holding. Also, the increase in "excitement" by making lots of big hands, i.e. it is a party at party poker </font> ? i really think any direct increase in rake revenue is so far away from significant compared the massive risk of ruin they would be facing should evidence of their "rigging" be found that the concept is laughable

but of course there are the indirect profits as you pointed out when you said, "make more money by keeping the fish playing longer. 1) more players are playing, generating more rake, 2) attracts strong players to play on the site to play against the fish, generating more rake."

as far as i can figure the only way that they could rig a site to keep fish playing longer would be to actually have their software analyze and reward poor poker play, now even if this isn't too complicated <font color="blue"> it is not complicated at all, for example just say VPIP&gt;60, PFR&lt;2 = fish ; for example </font> a process to be feasible, i don't see any way for this not to directly result in good play being penalized so that someone able to exercise hypothetical perfect table selection (i.e. a table with just them and 9 "fish") would be a consistent loser since the site is rigged to help the "fish" <font color="blue"> There are many ways to rig something, I am not saying they draw out every time. </font>

however, in my own personal experience and i'm sure in the experience of winning players who have played many more hands than me, the worse the other players at my table are the more i win

the simple fact of the matter is poker IS rigged, not online or just party, or just B&amp;M, but the game itself is structured to be a balance of both luck and skill with enough of a luck factor that a poor player can win often enough to keep them coming back while still having a large enough skill factor for an expert player to win consistently over time, actual random cards are able to maintain this balance without any need for interference <font color="blue"> I agree.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="green"> In fact after saying all this, I have no definitive proof of anything. I am just making an observation that things did not seem right. I do not have a definitive opinion if it is rigged or not. However, I feel it is more likely that Party is rigged than UB, Stars, or Paradise. </font>

[AcmeSalesRep]

[ QUOTE ]
I experienced an anomoly of data.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

Acme

[siccjay]

OMG THOSE ARE THE BEST EXAMPLE EVER!!!!

A scam site and a bunch of people who suck at poker. They are the truth!

[dlk9s]

People who claim Party is rigged based on a few f'ed up hands probably chart hands at a baccarat table, too.

[WordWhiz]

How's this for anecdotal evidence. I've played more than 50,000 hands on-line. I've played in a B&amp;M casino twice in my life for a total of less than 10 hours--no more than a few hundred hands.

In my second session ever at a B&amp;M, in the first orbit, we had a straight flush losing to a royal flush. I've never seen that on-line. Obviously, B&amp;M's are rigged.

Oh, and I got a sweet $250 bonus just for sitting at the table when the Bad Beat jackpot hit!

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
as far as i can figure the only way that they could rig a site to keep fish playing longer would be to actually have their software analyze and reward poor poker play, now even if this isn't too complicated a process to be feasible, i don't see any way for this not to directly result in good play being penalized so that someone able to exercise hypothetical perfect table selection (i.e. a table with just them and 9 "fish") would be a consistent loser since the site is rigged to help the "fish"


[/ QUOTE ]



nice post and mostly some of the same stuff I've been saying for awhile naturally.

As I've reported before...the number of people on the PPM cruise constantly discussing how 'funny' the cards are at Party was incredible.

I really didn't bother arguing with any of them (and mostly tried to ignore and/or avoid them) but it was kind of hard to get away from.
If someone DID ask me what I thought I would possibly just say that I didn't agree and try to leave it at that.

I had different people giving me various reasons why party would or would not want to set up the cards for me to win at the tables.

-- scenario A - they want me to win because I'm a high-volume player and they want me to continue paying rake

-- scenario B - they are going to set it so that i lose because party doesn't like winners and they know I will come back anyway to give deposit more money...so I'm the type of guy they want to rig the game against.


and various other ideas as to how they would generate more or less money by keeping me in..or getting me out of the game.


FWIW - if Party wanted to rig the deal at 15/30 or higher I think it would be MORE profitable to set it so that there were FEWER 'action' flops (many conspiracy types argue that there are more high-card or straight-flush draw type flops on Party then in live games).
If the site had fewer action flops they would get through the hand FASTER and would likely STILL pull in their max-rake of $3.
I truly think their rake at 15/30 would be MORE profitable if they dealt more rag/dead flops.

Big pots just help the various players shuffle more money back and forth across the table while taking LONGER to do it.
Small pots at 15/30 still generate the max-rake but you get more hands in.


I don't believe they purposefully deal dead-flops of course.
But if they wanted to generate more profit on their 15/30 tables then the argument that it's somehow set to deal more 'action' flops is incorrect because it would actually HURT their profits.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
OMG THOSE ARE THE BEST EXAMPLE EVER!!!!

A scam site and a bunch of people who suck at poker. They are the truth!

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't tap on the fish tank.

[DeadMoneyOC]

Its also interesting that you play 3 times as many hand online. I would sure like to hope you see 'bigger' hands. BTW very first hand of my last live session a couple weeks ago I saw a Ace high flush lose to a straight flush. Or what about the time when my KQ was up against KK on a KQQ board and the river came....Q!

[theben]

As a result of your extensive experience in online poker and your personal intellectual prowess, i believe you clearly proven to all 2+2ers that partypoker is rigged. congrats!

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]
Not to sound conspiratorial,


[/ QUOTE ]


Not to sound offensive, but how many people knew most of what the post would say from the subject heading alone, nevermind this lead in...?

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[OrangeKing]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately I don't know how to write SQL.

Also, there would be more people with comments here like these, if the people here were not so condescending.

I may just have experienced an anomoly of data. However, I see things like:

web page (http://www.beatppnow.com/)

and

http://homepokergames.com/party.php

And, it just raises additional questions to what I have seen.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've linked to a site where some idiots made idiotic comments, and another that is a complete scam. What is your point?

Edit: By the way, PartyPokerCracked is one of the most hilarious ebooks of all time. Just try to figure out if you're on the WLLLLLLW or WLLLLLLLLW or the WLLLLLW or the WLLLLLLLLLLW or WLLLLLLLLLW cycle, and you can't lose!

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]

Oh, and I got a sweet $250 bonus just for sitting at the table when the Bad Beat jackpot hit!

[/ QUOTE ]


That's why I love Tunica: 100% of my trips there (1) I have been at the table where the BBJ hit. Obviously, this means all future trips will be the same. Go-go gadget Goldstrike.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[JonPKibble]

I've bought 100 lottery tickets and never won, so I think that's rigged too

[poker327]

[ QUOTE ]
NJ Casino Commission is watching things

[/ QUOTE ]

The only thing I saw the NJ Casino Commission watching is golf on TV. One of the commissioners was in the poker room, and instead of walking around the room watching games, he was staring at the TV. Those are patronage jobs to reward supporters of the governor.

One time in Borgata I saw a guy got screwed out of a pot because he didn't lay his cards on the table properly, and he was told the camera didn't pick up the action so he was out of luck. A regular later told me that games in the main room (not in the high limit room) don't always have the cameras focused on them. If the casino isn't even watching some of the time (they don't care as much for watching poker as it is not that money), you can be sure the CCC isn't watching either.