winky51
09-21-2005, 11:26 AM
I have come across an interesting set of situations where I wonder if talking during a hand or not talking during a hand is or is not profitable.
From what I read in books the best thing to do is shut the hell up when in a hand and let the other guy sweat.
But I am finding because I read people better than average and I am a people person by me talking I can induce players to make the wrong decision.
Does this make sense? When HU I like to talk to my opponent to see reactions and place things in his mind.
EXAMPLE #1: live tournament final table. We both have the same amount of chips about 12x the BB.
All fold to SB and he raises, I call with KdQd.
Flop comes 8d 5d Tc. SB checks, I think for a second pick up chips, put them down and check behind him.
Turn comes Ad SB has a worried look and checks, I check.
River comes 2c SB checks.
ME: "why didn't you bet the ace on the turn?" no reaction (I knew he had the ace by the pause) This player is weak tight.
ME: "why woudln't you bet the ace? Small pair?" I bet about 40% the pot, he calls and says "damnit I knew you had the flush, I knew I shouldnt have called" showing As Qs
This guy was ready to lay down the hand and instead he called.
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EXAMPLE #2 live $100 NL game, 1/2. I'm UTG. I am considered a tight player.
I raise with Jh8h to $6. All fold to LAG in the BB who reraises to $12.
I call saying "only $12 ok I call".
LAG says "I'm giving you pot odds to call" which he was.
$27 in the pot
Flop comes 4s 8s 8c. LAG checks. At this point I am sure he missed with 2 overs and I hit trips. I know if I bet here he is going to fold knowing how I play and thinking that since I called the reraise and bet the flop and his reraise smelled funny I must have a big pair. The old he thinks I think that he thinks ploy.
I say "you reraise me only 2x and then check the flop? Well lets find out if you really have something."
I bet $12 into the pot (pot $39)
LAG turns around and reraises me $30. (pot $39)
At this point I figure hes got maybe a flush draw and I welcome it, so I push he folds flashing AJo no draw. I thought if I didnt say something and plant a seed in his head he would have folded to my bet.
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EXAMPLE #3
Tournament I'm short stacked 4x the BB. 3 limpers I have (33) in the BB.
Flop comes 246 rainbow. I'm 1st to act. I think about it for 20 seconds and feel a move here is reasonable, any 3 and a gut 6 outs. Probably no one has a pair by the looks on their faces after the flop but some interest did appear 2 player's faces. I watch the players 1st then the flop.
I decide to push being the BB and this flop seems reasonable that it hit me.
UTG+2 stops for a second and gives me a look counting his chips. He had a good deal more.
He says "I bet you have a weak hand."
Now I know by the looks of it one other player is considering calling here also. He is counting the pot and looking at his chips. I really don't want a call from 2 players just whats in the pot.
I say "Well if you gotta ask me that question then I know I'm a head."
Both players quickly fold. I show my pair of 33s (claiming it was the only pair I had seen all day, and it was) and UTG+1 reacts POed. I wonder what the hell he had.
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Does anyone else work like this? I have seen some players that don't talk or budge when they have ahead, but react when you confront them and they are bluffing. Like trying to get out of a ticket with a cop.
My stone face approach works less for me than blabbing and forcing a player to a decision in the direction I want him to go. But this only works on the fishes.
Now I think its proper ediquette (spelling?) that if your not HU you should not talk about the opponent's hand.
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EXAMPLE #4
I have about 12x the BB and am on the button. All fold to MP2 that limps.
I think for 20 seconds call, SB calls, BB checks I have 6s5s.
Flop comes 2c 4sTs
SB and BB check looking uninterested, MP2 bets 1/4 the pot.
I debate her hand for a while and think shes betting a weak ten or an underpair 66-88. I push all in. Both blinds fold she looks worried and thinks. I say nothing because if I do I feel she will call. 30 seconds later a schmuk UTG+1 tells his buddy "I bet you he's on a draw". She hears this then nods her head and calls should King high KJ. She ends up winning the hand.
She was ready to fold when someone said something. This is when I started thinking about all my other instances of talking and how it impacts players.
Opinions? I am full of [censored]?
From what I read in books the best thing to do is shut the hell up when in a hand and let the other guy sweat.
But I am finding because I read people better than average and I am a people person by me talking I can induce players to make the wrong decision.
Does this make sense? When HU I like to talk to my opponent to see reactions and place things in his mind.
EXAMPLE #1: live tournament final table. We both have the same amount of chips about 12x the BB.
All fold to SB and he raises, I call with KdQd.
Flop comes 8d 5d Tc. SB checks, I think for a second pick up chips, put them down and check behind him.
Turn comes Ad SB has a worried look and checks, I check.
River comes 2c SB checks.
ME: "why didn't you bet the ace on the turn?" no reaction (I knew he had the ace by the pause) This player is weak tight.
ME: "why woudln't you bet the ace? Small pair?" I bet about 40% the pot, he calls and says "damnit I knew you had the flush, I knew I shouldnt have called" showing As Qs
This guy was ready to lay down the hand and instead he called.
-------------
EXAMPLE #2 live $100 NL game, 1/2. I'm UTG. I am considered a tight player.
I raise with Jh8h to $6. All fold to LAG in the BB who reraises to $12.
I call saying "only $12 ok I call".
LAG says "I'm giving you pot odds to call" which he was.
$27 in the pot
Flop comes 4s 8s 8c. LAG checks. At this point I am sure he missed with 2 overs and I hit trips. I know if I bet here he is going to fold knowing how I play and thinking that since I called the reraise and bet the flop and his reraise smelled funny I must have a big pair. The old he thinks I think that he thinks ploy.
I say "you reraise me only 2x and then check the flop? Well lets find out if you really have something."
I bet $12 into the pot (pot $39)
LAG turns around and reraises me $30. (pot $39)
At this point I figure hes got maybe a flush draw and I welcome it, so I push he folds flashing AJo no draw. I thought if I didnt say something and plant a seed in his head he would have folded to my bet.
---------------
EXAMPLE #3
Tournament I'm short stacked 4x the BB. 3 limpers I have (33) in the BB.
Flop comes 246 rainbow. I'm 1st to act. I think about it for 20 seconds and feel a move here is reasonable, any 3 and a gut 6 outs. Probably no one has a pair by the looks on their faces after the flop but some interest did appear 2 player's faces. I watch the players 1st then the flop.
I decide to push being the BB and this flop seems reasonable that it hit me.
UTG+2 stops for a second and gives me a look counting his chips. He had a good deal more.
He says "I bet you have a weak hand."
Now I know by the looks of it one other player is considering calling here also. He is counting the pot and looking at his chips. I really don't want a call from 2 players just whats in the pot.
I say "Well if you gotta ask me that question then I know I'm a head."
Both players quickly fold. I show my pair of 33s (claiming it was the only pair I had seen all day, and it was) and UTG+1 reacts POed. I wonder what the hell he had.
---------------------------
Does anyone else work like this? I have seen some players that don't talk or budge when they have ahead, but react when you confront them and they are bluffing. Like trying to get out of a ticket with a cop.
My stone face approach works less for me than blabbing and forcing a player to a decision in the direction I want him to go. But this only works on the fishes.
Now I think its proper ediquette (spelling?) that if your not HU you should not talk about the opponent's hand.
-----------------
EXAMPLE #4
I have about 12x the BB and am on the button. All fold to MP2 that limps.
I think for 20 seconds call, SB calls, BB checks I have 6s5s.
Flop comes 2c 4sTs
SB and BB check looking uninterested, MP2 bets 1/4 the pot.
I debate her hand for a while and think shes betting a weak ten or an underpair 66-88. I push all in. Both blinds fold she looks worried and thinks. I say nothing because if I do I feel she will call. 30 seconds later a schmuk UTG+1 tells his buddy "I bet you he's on a draw". She hears this then nods her head and calls should King high KJ. She ends up winning the hand.
She was ready to fold when someone said something. This is when I started thinking about all my other instances of talking and how it impacts players.
Opinions? I am full of [censored]?