Why would you trust these guys [disciples]?

The Calling of the First Disciples -- Matthew 4:18-22

18As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 19"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men." 20At once they left their nets and followed him. 21Going on from there, he saw two other brothers, James son of Zebedee and his brother John. They were in a boat with their father Zebedee, preparing their nets. Jesus called them, 22and immediately they left the boat and their father and followed him.


--Hmmm, these guys don't appear to be easily swayed or anything do they? I'm sure they are the type to be objective and analytical and not rush into believing anything they hear. (Oh I know, just say "God willed them to follow Jesus" and it solves any problem with the scriptures.)

[BluffTHIS!]

You are making the unwarranted assumption that those apostles had never heard of Jesus, which is highly unlikely given John the Baptist's ministry in the area with his pronouncements of the one who was to come after him. Also, since you cannot possibly see with the eyes of faith, you cannot see that if Jesus is who He said He is, then he might very well have a certain charisma and prophetic power that would draw men to Him.

It is also funny that as a non-believer you are taking the bible as the point of reference which gives up your ability to posit that it is not true as an answer to this or other christian questions.

Perhaps they valued their life more than fishing; god will, after all, slay them with his sword if they do not follow:



22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless




...or perhaps they were not catching many fish and did want want to exacerbate their hunger:


32:24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.

11:19 Ye shall not eat one day, nor two days, nor five days, neither ten days, nor twenty days;

11:20 But even a whole month, until it come out at your nostrils, and it be loathsome unto you: because that ye have despised the LORD...




That guy doesn't mess around. How could one not follow him?

[Stu Pidasso]

It could be that Jesus asked thousands of men to be his diciples and most rejected him. Only his successes were recorded.

Also, If your a christian who believes Christ was/is God then Jesus already knew who to ask and never bothered to solicit those he knew would reject him.

Stu

[Jeff V]

.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
…(Oh I know, just say "God willed them to follow Jesus" and it solves any problem with the scriptures.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite the contrary. God gave them free will and they chose to believe.

To your actual question: The assumption is made that some of the details are omitted. The essence of the story is what remains.

[ QUOTE ]
It is also funny that as a non-believer you are taking the bible as the point of reference which gives up your ability to posit that it is not true as an answer to this or other christian questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is patently false. Of course you could use the words of the Bible itself in debating whether those words should be trusted at face value.

[ QUOTE ]
The assumption is made that some of the details are omitted. The essence of the story is what remains.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Bible says Jesus came across them, called for them, and they IMMEDIATELY dropped their nets and followed him. Are you suggesting this is not to be taken literally and just *kind of* happened like that? What else just *kind of* happened as reported?

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
The Bible says Jesus came across them, called for them, and they IMMEDIATELY dropped their nets and followed him. Are you suggesting this is not to be taken literally and just *kind of* happened like that? What else just *kind of* happened as reported?

[/ QUOTE ] Jesus only kind of rose from the dead. Mary was only kinda a virgin.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
...Are you suggesting this is not to be taken literally and just *kind of* happened like that?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I am suggesting this:

[ QUOTE ]
The assumption is made that some of the details are omitted. The essence of the story is what remains.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can tell you how one should read (study) the Bible (although, I would defer to someone like BluffThis or NotReady both of whom could do a better job than I) if that is what you are asking.

But,it seems your OP was meant rhetorically.

[Jeff V]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you suggesting this is not to be taken literally and just *kind of* happened like that? What else just *kind of* happened as reported

[/ QUOTE ]

Ding! Ding! You get a prize. That's exactley what RJT was going for.

Again gimme a break, your response is so typical.
Jeff

[KeysrSoze]

He's got you there. It says "At once" and "Immediately", that doesn't leave much wiggle room for ommited material such as "After a week of heavy sermoning and indoctrination" or such. Even if this was the case, how many other parts are misunderstood due to unprinted ommisions, pray tell?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you suggesting this is not to be taken literally and just *kind of* happened like that? What else just *kind of* happened as reported

[/ QUOTE ]

Ding! Ding! You get a prize. That's exactley what RJT was going for.

Again gimme a break, your response is so typical.
Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

And your response is so atypical.

[RJT]

Again, obviously your intent is to poke fun of a book you know almost nothing about and even less about how to read it. You made your point. It was hilarious.

[ QUOTE ]
Again, obviously your intent is to poke fun of a book you know almost nothing about and even less about how to read it. You made your point. It was hilarious.

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't poke fun or make a joke. The Bible says "at once" and you said it ommitted other details. He pointed that out. But instead of addressing either (a) the silly manner the disciples were recruited, (b) what that says about the disciples and their credibility, or (c) the errors in the Bible for omitting lengthy details in favor of terms like "immediately" and what that might say about other claims made in the Bible, you instead chose to ignore it all as a joke. That seems appropriate, since the story almost is a joke, although I don't think it was intended as such.

[RJT]

So, are you telling me that your OP was not intended sarcastically and I misinterpreted it as sarcasm?

[ QUOTE ]
So, are you telling me that your OP was not intended sarcastically and I misinterpreted it as sarcasm?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its a legitimate question. Would you trust those who spread the teachings of a man who they literally driopped their nets to follow like mindless sheep?

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, are you telling me that your OP was not intended sarcastically and I misinterpreted it as sarcasm?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its a legitimate question. Would you trust those who spread the teachings of a man who they literally driopped their nets to follow like mindless sheep?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you weren’t being sarcastic, my apologies then. Disregard my posts.