88 in bb - Play along

[27offsooot]

Sitting in lecture right now, so don't have the hh, but played an intersting hand last night. Thought every street was very debateble. Never done a play along, so here it goes.

button is ~ 16/6 over say 100 hands, sb is 40/20/2 over a smaller range, but it was pretty apparanent he was LAG, but not a maniac.

PF:
button opens, sb three bets, hero?

[sean c]

I like capping it. Button is likely on a steal. You have position on the small blind I want to take control of the hand right from the start get heads up with the small blind asap and use your position post flop.

[toss]

I also like capping. Isolate the LAG and have position.

[winky51]

Capping seems the logical conclusion to make tighty fold and get it heads up with laggy in position.

[27offsooot]

K, so PF seems pretty easy. I think a good argument can be made for calling if button will come along most of the time, but i wanted to isolate and what not. So of course I capped. button called too. It seems that capping in this situation has become pretty routine on the boards. I remember posting a hand where i felt so bad ass about 5 months ago where i capped 77 PF out of the bb.

On to the flop: 91010, two spades, sb bets, hero ?

[ErrantNight]

raises to fold the button. assuming button is decent, even with reasonable odds he should fold overcards here. no reason to suspect this flop hit the loosey. yet.

[chief444]

Close between calling and raising. I'd lean towards a call. I don't think button folds many hands you would really like him to fold here. If he does fold AND you are ahead then it's likely button was sharing at least Ace outs with SB so it doesn't do a whole lot for your equity. Button isn't folding a better hand here. If button just peels I'd be raising the turn most of the time. If button raises you're very likely beat since not many opponents with his stats would think of raising the flop with the intention of pushing you off a better hand and getting HU against the LAG himself. So you can just fold to a 3-bet or peel and fold the turn unimproved. I don't think raising is far behind though since there are quite a few hands with overs button will fold for two here. Just so you don't fold.

[sean c]

i also like raising here. I don't see any good reason to wait for a safe turn card.

[toss]

I like raising the flop here to scare button away. If Button calls I put on the brakes.

[W. Deranged]

Gas it up!

This flop is pretty good for you. I want the button to fold live overcards. I like the fact that the board is paired above me because it means there are fewer cards to have hit my opponents.

Since it's only three-handed you still are able to protect your hands with a raise here against overcards and weak gutshots and stuff like that. No reason to wait until the turn as there might be in a slightly bigger pot.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
Close between calling and raising. I'd lean towards a call. I don't think button folds many hands you would really like him to fold here. If he does fold AND you are ahead then it's likely button was sharing at least Ace outs with SB so it doesn't do a whole lot for your equity. Button isn't folding a better hand here. If button just peels I'd be raising the turn most of the time. If button raises you're very likely beat since not many opponents with his stats would think of raising the flop with the intention of pushing you off a better hand and getting HU against the LAG himself. So you can just fold to a 3-bet or peel and fold the turn unimproved. I don't think raising is far behind though since there are quite a few hands with overs button will fold for two here. Just so you don't fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the decision is also close. I think that with the aggression i've shown and the potential for this to get three bet or capped, button will be folding a lot of the time to a raise with overs. There is the potential that sb has a lower pp like 44-77, so if he has that and button has overs, raising is obviously crucial. With a 10, sb is going to get some trickery going, so he either has something like A9, UI OC, a draw, or a lower pp, among which i am in very good shape. He may share some outs with button, but in this size pot, i elected to raise. Also, i'm not sure 100% positive that LAG will bet the turn if it goes call-call and there are a number of turn cards that may give him an OESD or gutshot + nut/ 2nd nut flush draw.

So i raised. Button calls as does sb.

Turn is the Qs, sb checks to u. Pot is now 9 bb - rake. Your move?
b/c, b/f, c/c, c/f

[W. Deranged]

Bet-fold looks about right to me. Check-calling here just can't be right, I don't think. I'm not worried about folding a lot of outs, because our 8s are often our only good outs given our gutshot is to the idiot end. I certainly don't want to be calling a raise. I think an argument could actually be made for check-folding here, but that seems a bit on the weak side. I guess it is close between b/f and c/f, though.

[TheHip41]

I'd bet the turn, if raise by button, i fold. If button calls, then lag raises, I fold. If i bet, button folds, lag raises, then you have to use your read/judgement on the SB to determine if you want to continue.


If I bet the trun and the button calls, I'm check/folding the river. If I bet and only the SB calls, I'm check the river. If lag donk bets the river, use your reads like above.

[27offsooot]

Ok, i guess most of u thought this hand was less interesting than i did. I suppose that the posts on how to prevent tilt/ what the odds of KK v KK v AA is/ how not to lose with trips/ raising AQo out of the bb are more intriguing (Overall crunchy's hand was interesting, this part was just boring).

Whatever, i thought the turn here was pretty interesting.
I planned on c/f b/c there wasn't much i could see button having called the flop that didn't already have me crushed or had a very live draw against. Also, I didn't have what i considered a clean at all gutshot, so i valued my outs at about 3, not enough to call. I didn't think that betting to protect my hand or whatever was a good idea when i was very likely behind. Also, i didn't expect him to bet the turn with just a draw, so i wasn't worried about that.

So, i check, the button checks.

The river is an offsuit rag, the sb now bets. Fold, call, raise?

[Grvnhigh]

This is why bet-folding the turn is a much better option. You avoid giving a free card to a hand that has a whole lot of outs to beat you, and you give up on relatively few of your own. The button is virtually never raising your turn bet with a hand that you beat, and may even make a mistake by folding a hand (like AK, no spade) that should call if he could see your cards. The river can also be played more optimally with the information that a turn bet gains. Now you have this sticky river situation where you're not quite sure where you stand, but ought to call based on pot size/opponent reads.

I know that I came into this thread late, but I would probably call the flop to raise a safe turn card and guarantee that I fold out potential overcards that may have called two cold on the flop.

BTW, this hand was definitely interesting and well worth some thought.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
This is why bet-folding the turn is a much better option. You avoid giving a free card to a hand that has a whole lot of outs to beat you, and you give up on relatively few of your own. The button is virtually never raising your turn bet with a hand that you beat, and may even make a mistake by folding a hand (like AK, no spade) that should call if he could see your cards. The river can also be played more optimally with the information that a turn bet gains. Now you have this sticky river situation where you're not quite sure where you stand, but ought to call based on pot size/opponent reads.

I know that I came into this thread late, but I would probably call the flop to raise a safe turn card and guarantee that I fold out potential overcards that may have called two cold on the flop.

BTW, this hand was definitely interesting and well worth some thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post. You should post more in here (not just b/c u're finally one to respond to the post). I agree with your thinking in a lot of situations regarding free cards and thought the turn was the toughest part. Still not sure whether b/f or c/f is better.

I didn't mean to bitch earlier, as there were some of the best SS posters replying, just thought this hand deserved more analysis, especially on the turn.