Vegas roomate staking situation?

[bicyclekick]

My roommate will be coming to vegas with us this weekend. We'll be there thurs-sunday and he has no active cash bankroll and doesn't really want to take money out of online. He COULD and would be willing to if that's by far the best play, but doesn't want to cripple his online role.

He just moved up to 5/10 6max from 3/6 6max about a month month and a half ago and he's ran incredibly well and learned quite a bit and has gotten his role up to about 10k. He's definately a good player but hasn't quite experianced enough to be ready for 10/20 although he did take a shot and lost 40bb.

He would love to make enough money playing on the trip to pay for the trip, which will be somewhere in the 800 range if i had to guess.

I don't really care to make money off him, but at the same time don't want to get hosed on a deal.

Any suggestions on what we should do and what limits he should probably play?

The first idea that came to mind is the pretty standard stake him for the entire trip and control what limits he plays. Whatever he makes I take half, whatever he loses, i cover. I imagine I'll have him playing in the 15/30 game at the bellagio and if it's not a great game the 8/16. He's never played above 6/12 live so mb starting at 8's not ab ad idea. I just think he's good enough as long as he doesn't think about the chip denominations. Then again, he's probably not quite used to some of the better calliber players so maybe the 8 game is a safer route...?

[etizzle]

IMO your plan sounds good, let him play the 15 as long as he will play his usual game. From what I've seen there really just arent going to be any good players in that game. He should be able to figure it out.

[peachy]

i think hed be fine at the 15...and if the games r good and u trust his play possibly a tad higher...just see how he does the 1st day or so

[Sponger15SB]

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The first idea that came to mind is the pretty standard stake him for the entire trip and control what limits he plays. Whatever he makes I take half, whatever he loses, i cover.

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Well then obviously just stake him in the highest game you both think he can beat cause it will be the most +EV for both of you. I assume you've watched him play a lot and know what he is capable of, so as long as he isn't freaked out about the money, whatever you both decide on would be fine.

Oh and also kick schneids ass if he doesn't go

[bicyclekick]

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Oh and also kick schneids ass if he doesn't go

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He committed a few hours ago and we just bought plane tix so he'll be there w00t.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

Since he's a friend I say your deal is fine, but since this will be a new experience for him I recommend allowing the option for you to cut the deal at anytime if you see him start to tilt off.

[Nightwish]

Since he's your roommate, I wouldn't treat this as "business," i.e. I wouldn't stake him. Instead, I would just loan him enough money for the weekend to enable him to play the 8/16 or 15/30 (whichever he prefers). Then just make sure he pays you back within a week or whatever term you decide on.

If you stake him and he loses, he may feel pretty guilty that he let you down. If he wins big, he may feel resentful at having to give half of the money he earned to you. Neither of those situations is good when you're talking about friends/roommates.

If he can beat 2/4 and higher online, he should have no problem taking down a 15 game over the course of a couple days in vegas... it was my experience over labor day weekend that the 15 games were VERY fishy @ bellagio, i ran good, but it wouldn't have mattered much b/c of the caliber of player. even the locals who i had pegged as rocks/grinders were calling raises with Q5o.

[worm33]

Id just loan him the money for sure. FYI 50% freerolls are very uncommon, if its your good buddy and obviously if hes playin 8-16 or 15-30 its not a big deal....But if you were going to stake somebody in a 1-2 or 2-4 game (ie somewhere you cared about your investmant) more like a 20-25% freeroll is more like it.

[Victor]

if he can beat 5/10 short then he should have no problem in the 15/30 at the bellagio. also, he should play in the mirage 20/40 as thats a very fun soft game.

[MarkD]

Why not just let him borrow the cash and if he loses make him take some offline to pay you back, and if he wins it doesn't matter?

[bicyclekick]

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Id just loan him the money for sure. FYI 50% freerolls are very uncommon, if its your good buddy and obviously if hes playin 8-16 or 15-30 its not a big deal....But if you were going to stake somebody in a 1-2 or 2-4 game (ie somewhere you cared about your investmant) more like a 20-25% freeroll is more like it.

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Thing is last time we talked he didn't really want to borrow money. He's going to need his role and doesn't want to blow it in vegas at all. I got the impression making money is less important than going and having a good time in vegas and not losing. He just has always wanted to get our there since we always talk about how fun it is.

I'd gladly lend him the money if that's what he wants to do.

[Justin A]

There's not really a way to do a zero risk thing for your friend without somehow hosing you on the deal. I think he should be willing to assume some risk. If he wants to make enough to pay for the trip, he's gotta realize that it's also possible he'll lose.

[tripdad]

he has 10K online, and doesn't want to risk losing it while in vegas? you should know that one cannot become a good poker player while playing scared money. he should find another hobby.

[PokerBob]

i think you stake him if you believe that he can beat the 8 or 15 games at the Belaggio. It is a win-win situation. if he makes you money great, if not, it probably isn't going to hurt you at all.

just make sure that up front everything is cool friendship wise. i stake a friend of mine and he initially felt bad if he lost but i told him "look, i know you can beat this game. i understand the risks. don't feel bad if you lose, because i will not feel bad taking half of your winnings." it has worked out fine.

[bugstud]

stake him and make sure he runs like soiler in those games rather than me.

also, plan something before I go to aruba friday night at midnight if possible

[Sponger15SB]

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he has 10K online, and doesn't want to risk losing it while in vegas? you should know that one cannot become a good poker player while playing scared money. he should find another hobby.

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Yeah actually you're right, instead of playing poker under the guide of an incredibly good and successful poker player, he should just quit and take up raquetball or maybe bowling.

Are you the new "Bad Advice Guy"? I am just going to assume you were kidding and not incredibly stupid until proven otherwise.

[tripdad]

no, i was not kidding.

bicyclekick said his friend did not want to "cripple" his online bankroll. this is very telling, as it reveals his friend as a player who plays more "not to lose" than to win.

now, my statement may have been wrong if indeed his friend is interested in playing poker as a potentially profitable hobby. if his friend wants to make the kind of money kick does, and wants to make it a career, then this kind of thinking is a major obstacle. it does not matter who his teacher is.

interestingly enough, i just got a copy of Barry Greenstein's book "Ace on the River" yesterday, and just began reading it today. he makes referrence to this same issue in chapter 6, "Attitude of a Poker Player". in it, there are 12 questions to ask oneself in an attempt to guage whether the reader has the appropriate character qualities to become good poker players. question #8 is : "Do you know the value of a dollar?". the correct answer, according to Greenstein is "NO". his reasoning: "Knowing the value of money is negatively correlated to being a good poker player. i have never heard anyone say, "He is not afraid to bluff for his last dollar, but he is a careful shopper." "

in the same chapter....in fact leading off the chapter....is this: "if you read all the poker books and become a technical expert on which hands to play and how to play them, you are still likely to end up broke. You must learn how to make money and hold on to it."

so, again, no matter if the world's greatest poker coach is yours, it still does not by itself guarantee your success.

[bicyclekick]

Nah, he just has different priorities currently.

He needs the money for all the skiing we're going to be doing this winter. He values this experiance higher than making more money and moving up quicker in poker. Does that make sense? It would be a super bummer if he couldn't do it, much moreso than anything in poker so it's not worth it to him. Totally makes sense to me, not quite so sure why you guys think it's so bad for poker.

He has 10 grand on line and is afraid to pull some out for poker in vegas????? Something amatter with this picture my friend. I wouldn't bother staking him either way. Sounds like he is making excuses for not wanting to use his own money.

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he has 10K online, and doesn't want to risk losing it while in vegas? you should know that one cannot become a good poker player while playing scared money. he should find another hobby.

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Yeah actually you're right, instead of playing poker under the guide of an incredibly good and successful poker player, he should just quit and take up raquetball or maybe bowling.

Are you the new "Bad Advice Guy"? I am just going to assume you were kidding and not incredibly stupid until proven otherwise.

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[bicyclekick]

I ended up staking him and he dropped about 2700. No strain on the friendship. As I told my friend who fealt a little bad about it but understood too..."i wouldn't have felt bad taking half your win, so don't feel bad about losing. It's part of the gamble of it."

The 15 games were juicier than ever and he just kept losing set after set etc.

I was curious to hear your guy's oppinion and yeah...I think our arrangement was the best for him. At least long term.

[johnnybeef]

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Any suggestions on what we should do and what limits he should probably play?

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I pulled ~500 out of the wynn 8/16 in about 5 hours, and 300 at the wynn 1/3 nl when i was drunk as piss. The 8/16 is a cakewalk.

edit: the bellagio 8/16 was a lot tougher than the wynn. ( i only took 120 out of that in an hour and a half)

p.s. i ran good the last time i was in vegy....