KK gets put to turn decision, what to do?

[Dommer]

No reads on the guy, hadn't really played any hands with him. Is everything up until his all-in on the turn ok? If so, what is your action facing his all-in? If not, what should I have done differently? I have a feeling I bet too weakly... like to see what you guys would do though.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP3 ($72.42)
Hero ($104.80)
Button ($158.50)
SB ($99.35)
BB ($128.95)
UTG ($95.75)
UTG+1 ($105.80)
UTG+2 ($100)
MP1 ($103)
MP2 ($117.65)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50. UTG+2 posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 (poster) raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $10</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls $7.

Flop: ($22.50) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, UTG+2 calls $15.

Turn: ($52.50) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $30</font>, UTG+2 calls $75 (All-In), Hero ????

[MINETZ]

easy call, if not for any reason you have huge pot odds.

[Macquarie]

[ QUOTE ]
easy call, if not for any reason you have huge pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

What, and pray he has QQ? High pots odds is no use if we are never ahead. We need to be ahead only 1 in 5 or so I think, but it's close.

[amoeba]

if you are going to fold to his turn raise, then you shouldn't have bet the turn.

[Macquarie]

[ QUOTE ]
if you are going to fold to his turn raise, then you shouldn't have bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

excellent point, but do you advocate betting the turn or checking?

[amoeba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you are going to fold to his turn raise, then you shouldn't have bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

excellent point, but do you advocate betting the turn or checking?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would bet the turn as something like AKh is also possible here. I feel that not too many people call a preflop raise with AA so I think this is rare. I'm slightly worried about JJ which i think is villain's only likely holding which beats us.

infact I might play it exactly like hero and weak lead then call the push.

[Macquarie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you are going to fold to his turn raise, then you shouldn't have bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

excellent point, but do you advocate betting the turn or checking?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would bet the turn as something like AKh is also possible here. I feel that not too many people call a preflop raise with AA so I think this is rare. I'm slightly worried about JJ which i think is villain's only likely holding which beats us.

infact I might play it exactly like hero and weak lead then call the push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, i can't see AhKh check-pushing the turn but not the flop. I think that's a bit hopeful.

[Dommer]

It looks like the question comes down to whether or not to bet the turn... since if you do you are giving yourself too good of pot odds to fold really (or is this not true?). Does anyone know how to do the math to find out if betting the turn is correct or not v villains possible holdings?

Since we don't have a read I guess you can play around with what the villain could have, but lets say AJ, QQ, and AKh are the holdings we beat, while JJ and 1010 are the ones we don't. I'm not going to count aces, I just don't see someone playing them like that. I suppose you could add them in though.

It seems to me that no reasonable player is calling on teh turn with AJ, AKh, or QQ. Looser players will probably call with all of them of course. While all the hands that are beating us will definitely raise the turn. Does seem to be a WA/WB situation though so maybe checking the turn is best?

I don't know, maybe somone can do the math, I'll post results later.

[amoeba]

if you don't think they will call a turn bet with hands you beat then you should probably check the turn.

[Dommer]

So I guess it's mostly an issue of reads then?

I guess I'll go ahead and post results if that's the case. Being the fish that I am I called the push even though I had no good reason to really and he turned over AJo. The river was a Q and my kings held up. Afterwards I realized just how lucky I was to win that though and how I probably played it bad. Also lucky in that if I had played it any differently I would have lost a lot of value, the Q being a scare card to us both.

[amoeba]

yes, its an issue of reads.

basically if he is calling station, then just bet strong, if he is tricky player who likes to make moves, bet weak to induce a move, if he is good tight aggressive player who doesn't overplay his hands, check behind to possibly get some value on river and also keep pot small the times you ar behind.

[fuzzbox]

It looks like he has you beat, but I call for that price.
I probably bet either 40 and am prepared to get all-in, or I set him him myself. Or else I check.