Ugly board w/ K K vs. LAG.

[kongo_totte]

Villian is 50/10.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB ($64.60)
BB ($133.80)
Hero ($105.95)
UTG+1 ($91.05)
MP1 ($34.83)
MP2 ($27.15)
MP3 ($139.35)
CO ($87.50)
Button ($173.35)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>, UTG+1 calls $4, MP1 calls $4, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls $4, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: ($17.50) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, CO calls $15.

Turn: ($47.50) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
What is heros plan?

[orange]

I think I like checking the turn. c/c-ing is good for pot control- c/f-ing is an option, but I don't think I'm ready to give this hand up to a reasonable bet.

[LaramieJC]

I really hate these situations when you are smooth called for a relatively large pot sized bet on the flop with a low card board. I would put him on a small pocket pair for a set, 89s, or J10s from the way he has played so far -although you'd probably see a raise from two pair. I believe that I am behind the majority of the time and c/f here. I would like to know his went to showdown % and his win $ at showdown % before I made this decision though.

[amoeba]

this is precisely why I almost never 4xbb raise utg at a calling station table with a hand that I'm pretty much autobetting the flop.

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
this is precisely why I almost never 4xbb raise utg at a calling station table with a hand that I'm pretty much autobetting the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

So do you raise more PF? You don't mean flat-calling do you?

[amoeba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is precisely why I almost never 4xbb raise utg at a calling station table with a hand that I'm pretty much autobetting the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

So do you raise more PF? You don't mean flat-calling do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

raise more if you think it will cut down on number of callers, limp reraise if you think even a 6xbb or 8xbb raise will get called multiway.

[orange]

Ok..thought thats what you were advocating.

[amoeba]

our biggest problem is that these guys while willing to call our preflop bet, will likely not call the inevitable flop bet without something that has overpair beaten. maybe a draw which is the best you can hope for. the biggest problem is that your flop bet is so many times bigger than your preflop bet due to the multiple callers preflop.

on the turn you can try checking to control pot size but even calling 2 1/2 pot bets will have you pretty much all in.

[wtfsvi]

I would be happy if my continuation bets never got called by one pair hands.

[amoeba]

ok point taken, if you are able to bet preflop UTG with AK and then lead pot on the flop with ace high in to 4 other players then you will make money off your continuation if they are the type described above. but how many people are willing to do this?

also what do you do if an A or K turns?

[wall_st]

This situation SUCKS!!!!

I hate it and I hate the turn card even more. I might lead the turn (getting ready to dump it) for like 20, but then again I have also been known to enjoy lighting my money on fire just to see what it looks like when it burns. Ugh this sucks.

[kongo_totte]

In the hand, I checked the turn, he bet $20, I called, river was the T /images/graemlins/club.gif. I checks and he checks behind w/ 6 3o.

After thinking about it, I think check-folding the turn is correct. Basically, I hate betting since I just don't see any reason to. I am not betting for value and I am not protecting, so the only good betting does is info, and I try to keep my "just-info-bets" to a minimum. So, then the alternatives are check-raising, check-calling or check-folding. Here, I think check-folding is the best play, but not by much. I am sure I'll fold the best hand alot vs. this lag, but the board is just too ugly, and if I am behind, I am drawing more or less dead.

[TheWorstPlayer]

C/r all in?

Edit: after reading the thread, I agree with your thought process. I think it is c/r a-i if he is really a retarded LAG or c/f if he is not that retarded.

CO called a 4 dollar raise with 6-3 off and then called a huge flop bet with just a straight draw...you may have lossed this hand but if he keeps playing like that you'll take his money in no time.

Oh yeah the advice part...check fold the turn, I don't like the C/R all in advice AT ALL.