Hand to talk about

[SoBeDude]

Paradise 2-4 hand on a pretty loose and marginally wild table.

I'm seeing some people playing some truely horrible cards. One calls my preflop raise (2 cold) with 62o, only to hit two 6's on the flop, never bet or raise and I pay him off all the way to the river with TP/TK.

After watching some of this continue to go on (I'm actually dumbfounded at the play I'm witnessing and the hands that are taking down pots). And OK, I guess in hindsight I was steaming a bit after two really ugly beats.

Here is the hand:

I'm in UTG+2. Player in front of me (UTG) is playing every hand, every two cards. I want to punish her limping with crap and try to narrow the field a bit so I raise with QT /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif .

LP calls two cold (another fish), BB calls, UTG calls.

flop comes T /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 3 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 8 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

So on the flop I have top pair, queen kicker. Also a queen high flush draw.

BB check, nutjob UTG check. I bet. 2 callers, UTG raises me. This means nothing. It means she looked down and noticed two cards that may have been somewhat close to the cards on the board.

Well I'd happily play heads up against Mrs. Lobotomy, so I reraise. Now the fun starts. LP pops it again, wonderful. My instinct tells me he has some sort of hand. I haven't been play with this fellow long so its tough to get a read other than he's playing bad cards and taking them too far. We all call. Pot is getting big.

Turn brings a Q /forums/images/icons/heart.gif . I like. I've got top two plus still my flush draw, and 4 outs to a full house.

Now Mr. BB bets out. hmm. he likes the queen. ok with me I have his queen beat. UTG calls, I call, planning a reraise when LP pops it. Sure enough, LP raises. Immediately I begin to think SET. oh no, I'm behind, but I still have outs. I think I'll just call to see the river.

BB now makes it 3 bets. hmm. UTG calls two more cold (see, I told ya). I know LP is going to cap it so I go ahead and do it for him. I still have outs. LP calls.

River is no help (crap). 5 /forums/images/icons/club.gif

Hounddog checks (musta been on a higher flush draw?), UTG checks, I bet. Hey I still have top two pair here. I'm ready to fold to a raise here but I figure I have to pop it. Pot is big.

LP calls me down, everyone else folds. This is actually what I expected. I really felt my only competition this hand was LP.

LP shows me pocket 3's for the flopped set. I lose.

How badly did I play?

-Scott

[Barry]

Hi Scott -

Was this before or after you and I played together?

Yep, I've been at that table. That's why you need to stay at the 5/10 games with me. You know I won't suck out on you.

Anyway on to the hand...

I know that your steaming and you want to "punish" him/her, but you picked a relatively weak hand which to do it with. If you had a good chance to isolate the player, perhaps, but you said this was a loose table, so you didn't have a very good chance for that. You got 2 other callers and your out of position with one of them. So now what?

The flop comes and hits you about as well as it can. OK, I know that AKJ /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif would have been better. Of course bet, reraise OK, when LP pulls his call/reraise move and caps it, to me it screams a set. Why? Because that's how I would play it. Lot's of money in the pot, you have a flush draw, not to the nuts, but OK call. I'm in check/call mode for the turn and possibly check/fold the river unless I improve and can beat a set.

Turn, OK you've picked up some additional outs, but you're still behind. Capping the turn, hmm... I haven't done the math, but I'm not sure that's a +EV play, plus you want to know if LP is REALLY going to cap it.

River, you don't improve, check and... the pot is big, I'd guess I'd make a crying call and expect to see 88, but folding might not be a bad decision either.

Like LarryJoeFish the other day, you started tilting. I was having a similar session at another table before we played together last night. The best thing to do is to check the "Sit out next hand" button, get up go for a walk, down to the beach, if it's close, cool off and come back when you've settled down. Then pick a better spot and a better hand next time.

[Bob T.]

I think that the only really questionable play, was raising preflop with QT suited. The problem with this hand, is that if you have to go to the river with the loose guy, you don't have much showdown value, unless you improve. You certainly have enough so that you might have the best chance of improvement, but I think I like calling here. After the flop, with the combination of your big draw, and your opponents, big hands, I don't think you have a chance to ever save a bet. Someone was going to cap it on every street, if you didn't, and if they weren't going to, you probably should have.

I like your bet on the river, but did you have a plan for what to do if you got raised. You already were suspecting set, so if your opponent raised, were you going to call, fold, or three bet(included just for completeness)?

[Barry]

Hi Bob -

Help me understand why you like the river bet.

Betting into some one that has put money into the pot at just about every opportunity when you are most likely behind? What would be the objective? If he does indeed have a set, there is no draw out there that he would be afraid of. He is not going to lay down his hand; he might call, but more likely would raise, so you're left with bad options, lay it down, when you just might have enough chance of being ahead to have check/called or have to pay 2BB to get to a showdown. 3 betting here would leave you in the same position when you bet the river in the 1st place.

[Lil Ribbit]

What is it with online 2-4 games? I do fine in 1-2, 3-6, 4-8 and 5-10 but for some reason the wacky 2-4 games are filled with hands and players like the ones you described? Can anyone else relate?


Lil

[Bob T.]

I like the bet here, because you can't get raised on the river by that player. If he calls, he has the chance for two overcalls, raising might get him 1 bet at best,and Sobe has said that he planned on folding to a raise anyway, so the most he is going to lose on the river is 1 beet.

LP might have a hand we beat, or might have a hand that beats us. After all of this action, LP might check behind when we are ahead, but would probably bet when we are behind. So betting here, even though you are likely going to lose more than 50% is probably right, because you lose less in the long run by betting and being called, than if you check, and call 1 bet.

Actually, LP only put in two raises all hand, so they haven
't guaranteed that big of a hand. I think that if Sobedude, had called the threebet on the turn, instead of autocapping, then he would have had a better feel for whether or not LP really had the set, even though he would have probably put the same money in the pot.

[Tyler Durden]

The last paragraph contains great advice. If I'm doing poorly I'll sit out a lap or two and go get a drink or a Valium. Since it's online play, you won't be stuck waiting around forever like you sometimes do at a Bee and Emm.