Ducks on paired flop again

[thesharpie]

6 handed 1/2 Titan.

2 donkey posters, they check, Button and SB calls, I check deuces in the BB, 5 to the flop for ~5SB.

A/images/graemlins/heart.gifQ/images/graemlins/heart.gifQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Checks to the button who bets, SB folds, I raise /images/graemlins/confused.gif, folds to button he calls

Turn (4.25BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif

I bet he calls

River (6.25BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif

I check call

BERATE ME PLZ

How many streets did I misplay?

[gharp]

I'd like it more if the flop were Q/images/graemlins/heart.gifQ/images/graemlins/heart.gifT/images/graemlins/spade.gif. That A is gonna keep people around and you're drawing pretty thin.

I dont think you did anything wrong.

[DCWildcat]

Why aren't we folding on the flop? Small pot, weak hand with little chance of improvement. Any turn or river that isn't a 2 is potentially bad.

I can't see calling the river either.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like it more if the flop were QQT. That A is gonna keep people around and you're drawing pretty thin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone with an ace is probably calling down anyway on either flop. Anyone sticking around on a AQQ flop I'm a little worried about.

[deception5]

Pot is small, I'd prefer to check the flop. You wouldn't try to narrow the field down if you were holding an A/Q here so it looks like you're just trying to pick up the pot. Another option might be to check/call a button bet on the flop (check/folding if it's bet/call before you) and leading a non-broadway turn.

Edit: For some reason I thought it was 3-way. As such, I don't mind the check/raise as much.

I'm lost by this line. What does he call your turn with and bet the river with that you beat? Do you have a read that he'll bet busted flush draws if you show weakness? Does he showdown any 2 cards just for fun?

I like every street except maybe the turn bet. On the flop it's a good raise because it drives out the posters, who probably are behind you but if so probably have six outs each. Meanwhile I don't think you can give up the hand to the button, who limped in after two posters, which to me indicates a drawing hand. On the river, I think you have to call his bet: I calculate a 5.96% chance he had a pocket pair (although in reality his limp means it's probably lower), and if not, there are 11 cards that beat you. So essentially I think your equity is about 50% on the river.

The more I think about the turn, I like a bet there too. I don't think this hand is that bad. My guess is villain had two hearts and gave you a hard time afterwards.

[gharp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like it more if the flop were QQT. That A is gonna keep people around and you're drawing pretty thin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone with an ace is probably calling down anyway on either flop. Anyone sticking around on a AQQ flop I'm a little worried about.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think I explained myself well. Basically, I'm saying that it's likely one of the other four players has an A, so you're check-raising here when you're drawing to 2 outs against them (I don't expect the A to fold in fear of QQQ, even for two bets cold). If the flop was paired with a card other than an A, I'd be more happy about check-raising here.

After looking at this more closely, I see that there were two posters so there's only one other person who liked his hand enough to put in the full small bet preflop. Still, that's also the person who bet on this flop. So I think I'm just gonna fold when he does.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm lost by this line. What does he call your turn with and bet the river with that you beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

He may bet with a busted flush draw, king high (nut no pair), or even KJ/KT/JT (missed gutshot). This call is close, but may be profitable.

[tyler_cracker]

Raise preflop.

Check/fold the river. I don't see how you could possibly be good after he calls along and then bets once you check.

I might make that flop check-raise as well, but i think that's one part of my game that's too LAGgy.

Ok.

I ask as I've been playing tons of 1/2 6-max lately & I don't often see such river bets. I'm still skeptical that this happens often enough to make a call here correct given Hero's flop c/r and the turn lead. Are we winning ~15% here?

If you were the villain, would you fire a river bet with KT or busted hearts? If yes, what do you expect to fold (I assume you wouldn't believe it to be a value raise)?

Thanks in advance!

P.S. Is c/r, bet, c/c your preferred line here? How about bet, bet, bet or c/r, bet , bet instead?

I fold on the flop, and check/fold the turn.

Once you have got to the river you have to make that call though, otherwise why did you even go to the river? Your hand was never going to improve.

[@bsolute_luck]

unless he bluffs with any 2 cards or flush draws, i would fold the flop simply because he isn't laying down a pocket pair here and this just screams bluff/semi-bluff.

but it isn't major spewing by any means even if you lost. take note of what he has. good check/call on the river w/o a better read.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be spewing.

[tyler_cracker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Even with two posters worth of dead money in the pot and only one person even putting a whole SB in to see the flop?

How much of a hand do you need to have here to raise?

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
Really? Even with two posters worth of dead money in the pot and only one person even putting a whole SB in to see the flop?

How much of a hand do you need to have here to raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with raising here is that the posters have odds to call with anything, since they are likely to be getting 9:1. 2's are extremely unlikely to hold up against 4 opponents and your position is horrible.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

446,689 games 6.860 secs 65,115 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 17.7665 % 17.58% 00.19% { 2c2d }
Hand 2: 20.5678 % 19.39% 01.18% { random }
Hand 3: 20.5822 % 19.39% 01.19% { random }
Hand 4: 20.5323 % 19.35% 01.18% { random }
Hand 5: 20.5513 % 19.37% 01.18% { random }

I'd probably want at least 8's or 9's (usually 9's) to compensate for the bad position, number of opponents, and the fact that 2 of the players do not have random hands.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

323,284 games 5.234 secs 61,766 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 29.4995 % 29.18% 00.32% { 8c8d }
Hand 2: 17.6157 % 16.75% 00.86% { random }
Hand 3: 17.6315 % 16.75% 00.88% { random }
Hand 4: 17.4909 % 16.62% 00.87% { random }
Hand 5: 17.7625 % 16.90% 00.86% { random }

[Eeegah]

[ QUOTE ]
Really? Even with two posters worth of dead money in the pot and only one person even putting a whole SB in to see the flop?

How much of a hand do you need to have here to raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

That "dead money" is likely up to eight seperate overcards, and only one has to pair to sink us if we don't catch a set. Run PokerStove on this; 22 is so easily drawn out on that we are actually behind four random hands.

And it's especially likely on this board. I'm folding the flop, but I have unbridled disdain for 22 so that shouldn't be surprising.