Value bet Vs "Better hands wont call"

[POKhER]

Heard this so much "Value bet" and "check, better hands won't call".

Well... Wheres the diving line? The stakes we play?

Do we no long value bet when we move up to 1/2 as better hands wont call? Do we continue to value bet there?

Do we value bet at .25/.50? .50/1 ?

Basically im asking what counts as a "Value bet" and whats a "Check behind, better hands wont fold".

If we POSSIBLY have the best hand we value bet? How sure must we be if we are to value bet?



Do i value bet this, or will worse hands fold?

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15/8/2.3

Mp1 Loves Aces specially betting them when he doesn't hold one. His stats are: 31/1/.59

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (5.40 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Button calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4.70 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, Button calls.

River: (10.70 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Hero value bets? Checks because better hands won't call?

[deception5]

This is absolutely a value bet. There are 2 opponents and you'll definitely get called by any top pair hand. What's up with the turn check/raise?

I bet and I think its not even close. The question is imo if we want to 3-bet.

[POKhER]

[ QUOTE ]
What's up with the turn check/raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Had a read on this guy who loves to bet aces even if he holds nothing. I also think if he didnt bet the other guys would thinking im not scared of the ace and will fold(Possibly taking the pot themselves).

was risky, but i was happy with my reads and fairly confidant. If i had no reads i'd bet it (No free cards for MR Flush Draws).

[Dunno]

We bet for value here. in a 10bb+ pot ppl will call u down w good As and w 2 pair.

[POKhER]

Obviously i value bet, was called and then raised by button holding K2s(Flush won).


Now i really need to learn when to value bet and when to check behind.

[SlantNGo]

There is no question that you need to bet here. If we held, say QQ on this board, then we need to decide whether or not to value bet. Or K9 or something to that effect. Usually at limits like 0.5/1, your decision is "Should I value bet my less than top pair hand?" because loose-passive players will tend to call down with bottom pair or 2nd bottom pair, etc.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously i value bet, was called and then raised by button holding K2s(Flush won).


Now i really need to learn when to value bet and when to check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

the dude sucked out. value bet this river EVERY TIME. you'll get 2 pair or an Ace a lot.

ps: if the guy likes playing aces just bet out on the turn and 3-bet him all day.

[Fantam]

Wheres the dividing line for a value bet?

I dont know for certain, but I suspect that it depends upon things like the texture of the board, the number of opponents that are left in the hand, your position, how your opponents play and what your hand is. Anyway as far as a rule of thumb goes, I would say something like a reasonable pair, preferably top pair or an overpair.

I think that you risked the turn being checked through in this hand, as no one else had shown any previous agression. Also leading with a bet may have allowed you to 3-bet if anyone else raised.

I would bet the river. Someone may have completed the flush draw, but checking will lose you bets when you do have the best hand. I would expect you to get called by weaker pair hands such as Ax.

By the way, you check when you dont think that a worse hand will call, and that only a better hand will call. lol /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[milesdyson]

while you're trying to define these terms, i'll give you a couple more to look up:

1. results oriented thinking
2. fancy play syndrome

you have fallen victim to both.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero value bets? Checks because better hands won't call?

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm... somewhere along the line you got some terms mixed up a bit.

The basic idea here is to bet, because if you check, only a better hand will bet(while a worse hand will simply check behind). If you bet, worse hands than yours will call.

[benkath1]

As it's been said, your FPS has given button correct odds to draw to his flush. I think this is a perfect example of hand pretection. If you are the confident in your read you should bet this turn. If MP1 loves his Aces like you say, he will raise and button will be faced with 2 cold. As you played it, button got 5:1 on his first call and 4 to 1 on the second. Had you bet and MP1 raises, button is faced with 3.5 to 1 with his flush draw. He might not fold, but you make more money on the turn this way.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
As it's been said, your FPS has given button correct odds to draw to his flush. I think this is a perfect example of hand pretection. If you are the confident in your read you should bet this turn. If MP1 loves his Aces like you say, he will raise and button will be faced with 2 cold. As you played it, button got 5:1 on his first call and 4 to 1 on the second. Had you bet and MP1 raises, button is faced with 3.5 to 1 with his flush draw. He might not fold, but you make more money on the turn this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree this is fps, but the button is only improving to a better hand 15% of the time (2 flush cards also pair the board at which point we likely win an extra 3BB or so). We don't really mind if he calls 2 on the turn.

[benkath1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As it's been said, your FPS has given button correct odds to draw to his flush. I think this is a perfect example of hand pretection. If you are the confident in your read you should bet this turn. If MP1 loves his Aces like you say, he will raise and button will be faced with 2 cold. As you played it, button got 5:1 on his first call and 4 to 1 on the second. Had you bet and MP1 raises, button is faced with 3.5 to 1 with his flush draw. He might not fold, but you make more money on the turn this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree this is fps, but the button is only improving to a better hand 15% of the time (2 flush cards also pair the board at which point we likely win an extra 3BB or so). We don't really mind if he calls 2 on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes hidden outs. Forgot about those.

The nice thing about leading the turn is you will get to 3-bet also, so flush draw is getting more expensive.

[POKhER]

Dam i thought i'd get "Nice read" not "FPS" heck i always make mistakes lol!

After today it seems i have SO MANY LINES in my head in confusing myself and as said do have FPS right now.

I understand Odds/Implied/Equity

I mix up WA/WB situations, Value bets and others.

Coming to a point where im not sure its wise to continue to read/attempt to learn from the boards for the time being?

Maybe i need to read SSH again and improve my general hand reading abilitys before i go and learn extra lines that right now at potentially costing me more money.

Hmmm i'll think about what i need to do.

Although im motivated to read the boards as i feel im leaving money at the table if others know this and i dont.

[DCWildcat]

bet this every time

whether or not to value bet is much more dependent on the context of the board, your value relative to it, and your opponent's bluffing tendencies. absolute rules about what limits to value bet at are worthless.

[deception5]

Given your read I don't mind the play. It's unlikely he'll bluff-raise an ace against the preflop raise so you're trapping the field for an extra bet with a huge equity advantage.

[Borno]

would any ace call you here?

would any two pair call you here?

would a lower set call you here?


YES YES YES YES. I even call a raise. a large enough portion of the time it won't be a straight or flush. when it is suck it up the pot is 13 bets.