(33) - lost with JJ on bubble, 3rd stack

[schwza]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1520)
BB (t940)
UTG (t3855)
Button (t1685)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t600</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero ?

utg has not been running over the table like he should be, but he knows where the raise button is.

[nyc999]

I would push here.

There is a good chance this is a coin flip, but I think the FE makes it a worthwhile play. And if called &amp; won, you can start running over the table.

[Sciolist]

I don't think you have any fold equity here. I am allin though, JJ is favourite most the time, and likely it's not even a coinflip most the time. Plus if it's gonna be a coinflip, I'd rather have the 55%.

The BB isn't small enough to sit there and hope he runs out of chips first. This is time to play.

Pairs around the bubble make up for a good portion of the hands that keep me awake at night. Many times when I see them with four players left, I'm thinking, "Here comes the suckout coinflip" instead of "Yay, a pair!"

What would everyone's move be with the other pairs at a 33?

I think I'm pushing 88-AA here and expecting to get called. I'm folding 22-44. 55-77 seem to lay on the fuzzy border line that can go either way based on reads / intuition / nearby dartboard.

Would you fold JJ if the small stack had 2-3xbb instead of 4.5x BB? How would your pushing range on the other pairs be affected here with a micro-stack ready to bust?

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Pairs around the bubble make up for a good portion of the hands that keep me awake at night. Many times when I see them with four players left, I'm thinking, "Here comes the suckout coinflip" instead of "Yay, a pair!"

What would everyone's move be with the other pairs at a 33?

I think I'm pushing 88-AA here and expecting to get called. I'm folding 22-44. 55-77 seem to lay on the fuzzy border line that can go either way based on reads / intuition / nearby dartboard.

Would you fold JJ if the small stack had 2-3xbb instead of 4.5x BB? How would your pushing range on the other pairs be affected here with a micro-stack ready to bust?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you asking about open pushing or pushing over UTG's raise? The two are vastly different.

[schwza]

why would he be talking about open-pushing when that has nothing to do with the hand? he's talking pushing here, just being too loose about it and overestimating his non-existent FE.

[1C5]

puuuuuuush with those stack sizes.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
why would he be talking about open-pushing when that has nothing to do with the hand? he's talking pushing here, just being too loose about it and overestimating his non-existent FE.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know open pushing has nothing to do with the hand, thats why I asked. His range is huge considering the stacks and FE. I might be hesitant to drop below JJ here (FWIW, you made the right move, but given your read it is close I imagine)

AK, JJ+ unless I perceive bigstack as playing his stack correctly, in which case I widen that a bit.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
puuuuuuush with those stack sizes.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah...now looking again at the stacks, the differences are not enough to play tight into the money here. But given BS's lack of aggression thus far, I might fold 99 and down here. TT is close, but I'd push probably.

[Rduke55]

Push, his range is huge.

[kyro]

This doesn't seem very challenging. I push without much thought.

[bennies]

[ QUOTE ]

utg has not been running over the table like he should be, but he knows where the raise button is.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you think bigstack should push every hand here? FWIW I think he should, except when shortie is the bb.



PS: In your example, if we put bigstack on top 50% it's a marginal call with JJ, AKo is a fold.

[pooh74]

For all of those saying "push his range is huge", I agree with the "push" part, but "his range is huge" is probably not true. First OP said he is NOT running over the table. 2, he is UTG, 3, SS is in the BB. JJ is pretty straightforward, but UTG's range is not huge here....its still a push though.

[schwza]

this is the rest of my line.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1520)
BB (t940)
UTG (t3855)
Button (t1685)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t600</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t500, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t940 (All-In)</font>, UTG calls t340, Hero calls t340.

Flop: (t2820) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t600</font>, Hero folds.

Turn: (t3420) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t3420) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t3420

[Rduke55]

Well with that flop you clearly had to go.
I'm interested in why you called though? Did you think that the shortie was coming along too?

Calling wouldn't have occured to me here. Way to save some chips and (hopefully) secure an ITM finish. I'll keep that option in mind when the situation calls for it.

[bennies]

[ QUOTE ]
this is the rest of my line.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1520)
BB (t940)
UTG (t3855)
Button (t1685)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t600</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t500, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t940 (All-In)</font>, UTG calls t340, Hero calls t340.

Flop: (t2820) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t600</font>, Hero folds.

Turn: (t3420) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t3420) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t3420

[/ QUOTE ]


damit, I'm a dufus. I've read and written so many stop n go posts and still I fail to even think about the option...

I assume you wanted to stop n' go on most flops. However, 1) shortie signed in and 2) a terrible flop happened. Usually I don't like folding when it's 3-way and shortie is all-in, but on this AK flop I like it, JJ is most likely drawing to two outs.

[caretaker1]

[ QUOTE ]
This doesn't seem very challenging. I push without much thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep.